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Back to India

yugal.me

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Re: Back to India

#321

Post by rayiner »

FerociousTimes wrote: post #202
rayiner wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, what else can they do? I’m just describing how the current system works, because I think a lot of people don’t realize how thin their legal rights under the H1B system really are.

I think then we're on the same page. They have the right to fight for their own interests and see what they can come up with in the end. whether path to citizenship or the nearest international airport, but to just ask them outright to pack up and leave because the law says so turns the whole discussion unnecessarily negative.

To be clear I wasn’t telling anyone to pack up and leave. I meant that folks considering emigrating from India should go to Canada or Australia where they can get a real immigration visa from the outset, instead of rolling the dice on the H1B and hoping whatever administration is in office 10-15 years from now is feeling welcoming.

Re: Back to India

#322

Post by chrischen »

sidibe wrote: post #316
chrischen wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real geopolitics behind this is that Russia is trying to curb NATO influence. So this war is really about hurting NATO. A Russian loss helps NATO and a victory hurts NATO, but the war can be ended if either side makes the requisite concessions. But for unaffiliated parties they don’t necessarily take a pro-NATO stance so anti-war or anti-violence simply means “somebody please give in” rather than “NATO please win…

The recent tension kicked off in 2013 and was based on Ukraine approaching the EU. Over time Putin has sold the NATO story well since then but he started trying to directly control Ukraine politics in 2013 when they said they wanted to move forward with their EU candidacy. Ukrainians didn't accept this "veto" from Moscow hence Euromaidan and that led Putin to do what he did in Crimea and Donbass. None of that was abo…

> Ukraine becoming a more successful county like all the other countries that have joined the EU would have made Russians wonder if Putin was holding them back given their closeness to Ukraine and more advantageous starting point.

Yes but this furthers the goals of Western Europe and The USA, regardless of how Ukraine behaves. It just so happens to be an aligned interest with Ukraine. If Ukraine wants to fight off Russia it certainly has the right to, but asking China/India to sanction Russia is like telling them to pay and actively contribute to the war. Maybe they should do that, but that payment is at their cost, for the benefit of Ukraine and NATO.

I'm sure there are plenty of civil wars and atrocities such that the US probably should have interfered more, such as in Myanmar, so one has to wonder why in certain cases (Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine) that the US decides to intervene slightly more.

I'm not saying that's what they should be doing or not be doing, I'm just helping laypeople rationalize why the self-interested approach of certain countries is rational... for their self interest. But then countries aren't people, but they are beholden to the interests of their own people first. The US just so happens to be aligned with the interests of Ukraine, but our interference definitely has self interest motivations too. We just can't go around pretending like China and India not "helping" for our self-interests as some kind of atrocity.

Re: Back to India

#323

Post by 0des »

manojlds wrote: post #220
0des wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hesitate saying that they're third world.

Third world is literally about affiliation or lack of to the erstwhile two super powers. Ukraine war has reshown that India is indeed third world.

I had not considered that, thanks for giving me something to learn about.

Re: Back to India

#324

Post by kwere »

rayiner wrote: post #243
multjoy wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Who cares whether india is a democracy or not? Anybody who wants to do business. Democracies have stable, predictable rule of law. Do you want to invest in a country where a dictator could simply decide that he is going take your assets?

Rule of law is largely orthogonal to democracy. England had rule of law long before it was a democracy.

the "rule of law" began with the magna charta, a first limiter to the "divine right of kings". We dont see these or other checks and balances in illiberal / undemocratic countries and if there are, they got dismantled to devolve in autocracies. See Uncle Xi with deng xiaoping checks and balances reforms.

Re: Back to India

#325

Post by kwere »

gumby wrote: post #2

My cousin made the same move, though in his case he kept the same employer (for a few years). He’s much happier (in Mumbai, not Delhi). His brother, however, has been in the states for decades and I’m sure will never move back. So there is no magic answer. I keep telling myself I will move back to the country of my birth, but haven’t yet. The work here is too much fun.

are there in india "comparable" life/quality jobs, if one doesnt want to start his/her startup?

Re: Back to India

#326

Post by throwaway158497 »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #210

> the insane opportunities available in India now [3]. > India’s rising startup and tech wave > Massive switch from wealth accumulation mode to wealth creation mode. > And the amount of VC funding in India combined with the startup ecosystem’s energy here is absolute fire > The collective risk appetite has never been higher. > The step after the ‘American dream’ is the ‘Indian dream’. This is great to hear about Indi…

Hard disagree. There is no evidence that startups of India are helping the GDP or improving the lives of rank and file Indians. In my understanding, right now, all these VC funded businesses are catering to top 100M of Indian population, people who are already living US-lifestyle in India.

Re: Back to India

#327

Post by warner_of_doom »

narrator wrote: post #313
warner_of_doom wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. The manufactured consent generating machine is still working as expected.

You never ever oppose "the current thing."

Exactly. 0 consideration that the media may be constructing narratives and feeding them to us, instead of being objective.

Re: Back to India

#328

Post by bllguo »

barry-cotter wrote: post #44
88840-8855 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please elaborate why you think that the political system is "saner"? my Indian colleagues are very unhappy with the system itself and the racist and populist government that is elected by this system.

India is a democracy with 70 years behind it. If politicians are egregiously bad they get voted out. See Indira “Emergency” Gandhi, of mass involuntary sterilization fame. In China there is no similar system for changing the people who are in power if they screw up badly or are just plain depraved evil. Mao and company were responsible for the Great Leap Forward and accompanying famine and the Cultural Revolution, bo…

Yet even with the utter disasters of the great leap forward and the cultural revolution, China is _still_ leaps and bounds ahead of India. How does that figure into your calculations? Outside of China, all the East Asian Tigers achieved their growth under authoritarian rule.

How much more evidence do we need before having second thoughts that hey, maybe democracy is not the end-all, be-all of government systems?

Re: Back to India

#329

Post by bllguo »

hollerith wrote: post #55
88840-8855 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please elaborate why you think that the political system is "saner"? my Indian colleagues are very unhappy with the system itself and the racist and populist government that is elected by this system.

It can be bad, but still better than China's system. China has had competent leaders since 1978, but before then they had disastrously bad leaders for decades that killed many millions of their own people, and if the current or some future leadership turn bad, there are few robust mechanisms (institutional knowledge, traditions, expertise, etc) to help replace it with better leadership. In short, although things are…

> In short, although things are pretty good for residents of China at the moment, IMHO the risk of the whole country's becoming a hellscape is much higher in China than in India.

that's the tradeoff. In a democracy you intentionally cripple your own government's ability to get things done. It lets you avoid major risks but consequently you don't get to reap major rewards.

In a situation like India's, don't you think maybe greater risks are worth taking? Stability and preserving the status quo is something you want _after_ becoming developed. Consider that even after China kneecapped itself with the cultural revolution, today it's still far ahead of India. "Pretty good" is an understatement relative to India, unfortunately.

Re: Back to India

#330

Post by throwaway_1928 »

throwaway158497 wrote: post #326
SkyMarshal wrote: post #210

> the insane opportunities available in India now [3]. > India’s rising startup and tech wave > Massive switch from wealth accumulation mode to wealth creation mode. > And the amount of VC funding in India combined with the startup ecosystem’s energy here is absolute fire > The collective risk appetite has never been higher. > The step after the ‘American dream’ is the ‘Indian dream’. This is great to hear about Indi…

Hard disagree. There is no evidence that startups of India are helping the GDP or improving the lives of rank and file Indians. In my understanding, right now, all these VC funded businesses are catering to top 100M of Indian population, people who are already living US-lifestyle in India.

+1. I think they are just trying to mirror the tech oligarchy we see elsewhere. A handful of rings to rule them all and in the darkness bind them.
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