Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, I took the actual definition, and you just don't like it. Just because other people are ignorant or arrogant, doesn't mean we should cater to their ignorance or arrogance. But it does mean we should make it easier to differentiate the key differences by not re-using the same acronym over and over again. Instead of calling the 'new methods' GMO's, we should be calling them something else, instead of confusing the…
> No, I took the actual definition, and you just don't like it. You didn’t take the actual definition. Look at the GMO wiki, and the first sentence defines the term in such a way to restrict it to organisms created with more modern techniques. When having conversations with people it’s important to have a shared vocabulary with people. Having a different vocabulary creates miscommunications. It can be especially hard…
FDA Approves First CRISPR Cows for Beef
321–330 of 339 posts
Re: FDA Approves First CRISPR Cows for Beef
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
I never found a satisfactory answer to this question: if we stop eating domestic animals, they won't frolic forever in an idyllic wilderness - they'll just stop existing, completely. Do you prefer them not existing, to being eaten by people? And once you've answered - how would you feel about hyper advanced aliens coming to our corner of the universe and being horrified of all the pain and misery on earth, with a fin…
Yeah we should stop breeding animals into existence only to live short and unimaginably cruel lives. They won’t go extinct though, if that’s what you mean. There will always be cows and chickens and pigs. Just far far fewer. The huge difference between your hypothetical and reality is that the aliens are actively committing genocide and im merely a proponent of not forcefully impregnating more animals to get them pre…
Ok, so that's most pig and chicken. And btw I totally agree with you here. How about most cows and sheep?
The question is, for me, pretty important, because it moves the bulk of the focus from "don' eat meat" to "dramatically improve farming conditions".
Re: FDA Approves First CRISPR Cows for Beef
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
The site you linked is affiliated with vegan causes, is it not? Just because the sources are from those institutions does not mean they aren't cherry picked for that specific cause. I can also quote journals with conclusions justifying omnivorous consumption as well [0] but those would be just as cherry picked. [0] https://sapienjournal.org/people-who-eat-meat-experience-low...
Mate, the website is just a collection of links to the actual research. I’m being asked for sources, I give tons of very credible sources, and your retort is to just claim that now they are cherry picked? Sure, we can ALWAYS find a source that supports whatever claim we want to make. But let’s look at the general scientific consensus. The overwhelming majority of research indicates that veganism is perfectly healthy.…
If we want the best diet that science has we can look at papers like (https://www.onlinejacc.org/content/76/12/1484), or rankings like (https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-healthy-eating-diet...), or just go by world health organizations guide at (https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/healthy-die...)
In a nutshell, obesity and sugars are the killer regardless if they are vegetarian calories or animal calories. Second comes minerals that effect blood pressure, and third its peoples need for vitamins. A healthy diet is one that avoid health risks.
Fiber rich food and fish is linked with lower weight gain.
Sugar is linked with tooth decay and obesity, especially that white stuff that get produced by plants.
A diet need to balance vitamins and minerals based on how active the individual is.
No alcohol, no drugs, no tobacco, no coffee, no added sugar or fructose to water. If its an stimulant then there is risk for harm.
A healthy diet should be diversified and balanced.
Re: FDA Approves First CRISPR Cows for Beef
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
> No, I took the actual definition, and you just don't like it. You didn’t take the actual definition. Look at the GMO wiki, and the first sentence defines the term in such a way to restrict it to organisms created with more modern techniques. When having conversations with people it’s important to have a shared vocabulary with people. Having a different vocabulary creates miscommunications. It can be especially hard…
https://www.britannica.com/science/genetically-modified-orga...
> In genetic modification, however, recombinant genetic technologies are employed to produce organisms whose genomes have been precisely altered at the molecular level, usually by the inclusion of genes from unrelated species of organisms that code for traits that would not be obtained easily through conventional selective breeding.
Should I conclude that you're a liar, or very bad at reading your hastily summoned sources.
Re: FDA Approves First CRISPR Cows for Beef
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mate, the website is just a collection of links to the actual research. I’m being asked for sources, I give tons of very credible sources, and your retort is to just claim that now they are cherry picked? Sure, we can ALWAYS find a source that supports whatever claim we want to make. But let’s look at the general scientific consensus. The overwhelming majority of research indicates that veganism is perfectly healthy.…
If we want the best diet that science has we can look at papers like ( https://www.onlinejacc.org/content/76/12/1484 ), or rankings like ( https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-healthy-eating-diet... ), or just go by world health organizations guide at ( https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/healthy-die... ) In a nutshell, obesity and sugars are the killer regardless if they are vegetarian calories or a…
None of the important things you mentioned are difficult on a vegan diet, so I’m confused as to what your point is.
You mentioned that there are associations between fish and lower weight gain, but that’s sort of irrelevant because I’m not making the claim that you can’t be healthy while eating animals (though many doctors do!)
I agree that all those things are important. So optimize for them and avoid eating animals.
Re: FDA Approves First CRISPR Cows for Beef
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
If we want the best diet that science has we can look at papers like ( https://www.onlinejacc.org/content/76/12/1484 ), or rankings like ( https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-healthy-eating-diet... ), or just go by world health organizations guide at ( https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/healthy-die... ) In a nutshell, obesity and sugars are the killer regardless if they are vegetarian calories or a…
None of the important things you mentioned are difficult on a vegan diet, so I’m confused as to what your point is. You mentioned that there are associations between fish and lower weight gain, but that’s sort of irrelevant because I’m not making the claim that you can’t be healthy while eating animals (though many doctors do!) I agree that all those things are important. So optimize for them and avoid eating animals…
None of the important things are difficult on a diet with animal parts. That is the point you are missing. The rules for a healthy diet only require it to be diversified and balanced so that a person get a healthy amount of calories, proteins, fats, minerals and vitamins. Health studies has not demonstrated any difference if a person get obese through too much bread, too much bacon, or too much sugar. Health studies has shown however that too much sugar has a very high risk for obesity since sugar can easily trigger over eating.
If we were to rank the world worst food product in terms of causing health problems for humans, sugarcane and sugar beet would list at the top. Animal products is in comparison fairly healthy. After sugar the next would likely be corn, as in high-fructose corn syrup. Much of the worlds insulin resistance and obesity is directly caused by those two vegetarian grown products!
If we look to historical diets that killed the largest number of people, outside the context of sugar, it would be diets where people only ate potatoes, rice or corn. Those diets has a risk of missing essential vitamins and during wars there were major epidemics from unvaried diet that focused on those vegetarian options. People who ate meat during those periods was generally more healthy as their diet was more varied and balanced.
If one want to optimize for health, optimize for a diversified and balanced diet that addresses risk associated with weight gain and insulin resistance. Cut out candy, beer, sugar drinks, potato chips, cereals, cheese puffs (corn coated with cheese powder), wine, and so on. All vegan food (except for the coat on the corn), all food that is terrible for health.
No discussion that uses statistics to prove a point should exclude the use of the same statistics. Vegan diet is associated with better health. A vegan diet is also associated with being female, high education, young, never married, normal and underweight BMI, and without any chronic conditions. How much is cause and effect is a bit more complex.
Re: FDA Approves First CRISPR Cows for Beef
#327How do we review FDA's analysis? I hope it is available to researchers, and to public. Can someone point me to those?
Re: FDA Approves First CRISPR Cows for Beef
#328My opinion continues to be tools like CRISPR and genome editing techniques are just that--tools. Can be used for good or bad purposes depending on your context and bias. Most people associate these genome modification tools as inherently bad because the first generation of them were tied to herbicide and pesticide resistance. Whether you agree with those applications or not, its clear those tools worked and were extr…
The big issue with gene editing is the unintended consequences. Everything is fine now but will it always be that way? We deal with consequences by applying patches. So it's patch after patch after patch until the problem gets so bad that we start over. We can do that with things. But for genes that have spread over a population it will be next to impossible. Good luck to the future generations that will have to deal…
I agree with your core statement of a series of patches to fix things that get deployed, but I'm not so pessimistic we won't have better/faster/more accurate tools to deploy those patches. I generally never want to bet against human ingenuity, despite problems _seem_ unsolvable to our current understanding.
Re: FDA Approves First CRISPR Cows for Beef
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok. Show me something that would be a food but for "delayed bad things". Like, delayed by decades or even years. Just so we're clear, nutritional deficiencies aren't of any interest. As far as I'm aware this angle is FUD. If we want to apply the same standard to pesticides I'm not sure any high ground exists. That said, whatever effect they have on mortality appears to be miniscule given the trends over the last cent…
Transfats fit this perfectly.
The problem with trans fats seems to be a matter of degree rather than kind. See the note on palm oil on Wikipedia. Also note that deaths attributable to coronary artery disease, the quantifiable thing linked to trans fat consumption, are hugely decreasing over the period where trans fats became common, suggesting again it's not a high order bit.
If we consider this in the context of GMO it sure seems like FUD to me.
Re: FDA Approves First CRISPR Cows for Beef
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
None of the important things you mentioned are difficult on a vegan diet, so I’m confused as to what your point is. You mentioned that there are associations between fish and lower weight gain, but that’s sort of irrelevant because I’m not making the claim that you can’t be healthy while eating animals (though many doctors do!) I agree that all those things are important. So optimize for them and avoid eating animals…
None of the important things are difficult on a diet with animal parts. That is the point you are missing. The rules for a healthy diet only require it to be diversified and balanced so that a person get a healthy amount of calories, proteins, fats, minerals and vitamins. Health studies has not demonstrated any difference if a person get obese through too much bread, too much bacon, or too much sugar. Health studies…
Again, I don’t see how any of this is relevant to the discussion. I’m not making the argument that non-vegan diets are unhealthy. My claim is that vegan diets can be perfectly healthy.
You seem to think that I’m claiming that veganism is optimal for health. I’m not.