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Write plain text files

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Re: Write plain text files

#321
post #196
post #192

I also use sc (spreadsheet calculator), a terminal-based spreadsheet program which uses a plain text file format. Very convenient for dealing with tabular or numerical data, which would be cumbersome to work with on a textual file.

Last stable release for sc was 19 years ago (according to wikipedia). I guess it is perfect already :D

Yes, it's finished.

Re: Write plain text files

#322

Plain text adoption often implies markdown for a richer experience, but we also have the wonderful https://orgmode.org markup. There is no shortage of markdown-based tools on all platforms. Our org markup options, on the other hand, are very few outside of Emacs. Org markup itself is super versatile and can power lots of use-cases. I built two org-powered apps for iOS myself: https://plainorg.com https://flathabits.c…

I've been intensively using Orgmode for a year and a half (wrote my thesis in it) and then abandoned it to switch to Markdown. Orgmode quickly turns into not-quite-plaintext with humanly impossible to read and very distracting data structs stuck inside the text. I think these were called "Properties"? For me the beauty of plain-text is that it can be read and written in any Editor without needing syntax highlighting.…

That's a fair gripe, as an Org-mode+Emacs user. I certainly see the clunkiness you experience in its structure. But for me, I find it highly unlikely I'll ever use an editor other than Emacs for anything but basic and quick editing. For things as comprehensive as to necessitate writing in Org-mode, I'd rather do it in Emacs anyways. Need to port it to another editor? Two options: Org-export it to a more portable format, or get started on a comprehensive integration for Org-mode in the new editor.

I personally would be willing to put the time into developing Org-mode functionality on-par with Emacs, in a new editor, if the new editor were to have major advantages over Emacs. But I don't think I'll come across one for a very long time.

Re: Write plain text files

#324

Plain text adoption often implies markdown for a richer experience, but we also have the wonderful https://orgmode.org markup. There is no shortage of markdown-based tools on all platforms. Our org markup options, on the other hand, are very few outside of Emacs. Org markup itself is super versatile and can power lots of use-cases. I built two org-powered apps for iOS myself: https://plainorg.com https://flathabits.c…

I've been intensively using Orgmode for a year and a half (wrote my thesis in it) and then abandoned it to switch to Markdown. Orgmode quickly turns into not-quite-plaintext with humanly impossible to read and very distracting data structs stuck inside the text. I think these were called "Properties"? For me the beauty of plain-text is that it can be read and written in any Editor without needing syntax highlighting.…

Yeah, I agree. I use org, but if I'm writing a document I'm in Markdown, not the Org markup. It's just noisy.

Emacs partisans are often very, very sure that the emacs way is always the best way, sort of like evangelicals. (And I say this as a guy who has emacs and orgmode open all day, every day.)

Re: Write plain text files

#325
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So when you need to remember a user/password combo for a new device, offline doorbell maybe, or a parcel number, or the address of a friend, then you record a 4K video instead of writing it in a text file? Plain text just works, everywhere, all the time.

> Plain text just works, everywhere, all the time. No it doesn't. Try a plain text description of an electronic circuit vs a circuit diagram. Try a a plain text instruction sheet vs an illustrated one. Try plain text sheet music vs actual sheet music. Try a mathematical plot vs plain text tables. Try concept drawings of product vs text descriptions. Try construction drawing vs plain text descriptions. I could go on a…

This is where Org-mode succeeds over Markdown. Inline image support adds a whole new level to plaintext markup.

Sure, you could implement an inline-image-viewing ability into your editor for Markdown, too, and I'm sure someone's done that for Emacs (maybe it's a default feature I haven't enabled), but that's the vanilla functionality for Org-mode. Not a secondary-layer afterthought.

Re: Write plain text files

#326
post #154
post #35

Another advantage to plain text files: source control. You can check your writing into git and get a history of all your edits. It’s something programmers take for granted, but it would be amazing if this got more widely adopted outside of tech. The number of files with names like “Report Final Final draft v3.docx” is truly staggering. “Git for everything“ would be a multi-billion dollar startup easily.

Honestly I think modern Sharepoint/OneDrive based .docx files have already leapfrogged git for the average user. In an office environment, modern MS Word gives you a really nice version history, with automatic or manual/named versions, plus multi-user simultaneous editing, with a slick and fast UI. It’s even cross platform - I send a coworker a link to a document, and they can open it and work on Word for Windows whi…

We use SharePoint for revisions for casual documents and another CM system for tracking releases of official documents. The CM system is meant really for CAD models but it lets you upload Word docs that it displays as PDFs with watermarked revision information so you have to have a revision table at the front of the document for listing changes. The SharePoint system is a lot easier to use but you don't get the same sort of change approval system since anyone can edit. Instead we use multiple folders for WIP, waiting for QA approval, and final versions. We have to follow ISO 9001 but anything developmental or that is just derivate of documents in the CM system can live on much more casual systems like git, SVN, or SharePoint.

Re: Write plain text files

#327
post #34

>If you rely on Word, Evernote or Notion, for example, then you can’t work unless you have Word, Evernote, or Notion. You are helpless without them. You are dependent. Although I deliberately avoid Evernote and Notion for those stated reasons, I'm fine with Microsoft Word. I've been using it for 20 years. It even opens my proprietary DOS WordPerfect ("*.wp") files from 1980s! Sometimes I need more flexible layout of…

"Markdown isn't an alternative." Strongest possible respectful disagreement. --- ^ orig comment above, edits below (I was interrupted when 1st commenting; apologies to anyone who responded to the short version) --- See eg Obsidian ( https://obsidian.md ) for a great example. It's astonishing how feature-rich it's become. WYSIWYG editor, Excalidraw integration, Slid.es, etc etc etc. And if you have any webdev chops at…

Asking people to become web devs to get the kind of formatting Word makes trivial is not a winning argument.

Re: Write plain text files

#328
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Markdown isn't an alternative." Strongest possible respectful disagreement. --- ^ orig comment above, edits below (I was interrupted when 1st commenting; apologies to anyone who responded to the short version) --- See eg Obsidian ( https://obsidian.md ) for a great example. It's astonishing how feature-rich it's become. WYSIWYG editor, Excalidraw integration, Slid.es, etc etc etc. And if you have any webdev chops at…

Markdown is actually awful. There's at least 3 different dialects that are all called Markdown, so if you want your text rendered it's a toss-up as to whether or not it'll look how you intend. I think that Markdown's success is due to a lack of a widely-used, simple alternative that's well-specified. Org is easily and objectively the best markup but of course it's only very very recently that there was a non-emacs im…

>Org is easily and objectively the best markup

I laughed.

Re: Write plain text files

#329

Plain text adoption often implies markdown for a richer experience, but we also have the wonderful https://orgmode.org markup. There is no shortage of markdown-based tools on all platforms. Our org markup options, on the other hand, are very few outside of Emacs. Org markup itself is super versatile and can power lots of use-cases. I built two org-powered apps for iOS myself: https://plainorg.com https://flathabits.c…

@xenodium Wow - impressive reviews for your ‘plain org’ app.

When I grow up with my eMacs and org usage (I’m only playing now as org is new to me - but I know it’s what I have been missing!!!) I for sure must give your app a shot for iOS usage

Re: Write plain text files

#330
post #308

Use Markdown. There are zero disadvantages when compared to pure text files as it's plain text but with syntax and extra features on some text editors. The main advantages of writing plain text files: - source control - view/edit anywhere - doesn't get deprecated (Lindy effect) - easy to share - small size There's no reason to use suites like MS Office and Google Drive unless your team is routinely using it or you ne…

Google Drive is bad because: [1] Google may deprecate it or go away. [2] Google may decide that it doesn't want you as a user.

[3] Google may decide your data is too scrumptious to not take a peek, and possibly sell to the highest bidder.
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