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Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

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Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#321

Post by aantix »

Kranar wrote: post #120
aantix wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Looking at HN, Blind, Glassdoor, very rarely do I remember seeing an engineer that would openly state that they love working there.

Plenty of software developers would kill to work for Amazon, sure the work conditions and prestige is not as great as the other big companies but Amazon still pays pretty darn well. The big issue is the developers Amazon wants to hire are not the same as the developers who want to work there, so Amazon is basically paying a huge premium to attract people. That said let's not kid ourselves, the majority of people at A…

Clearly with their base pay and RSUs, they still weren't offering enough.

A doubling of base pay means that they realize they have been way off the mark.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#322

Post by boring_twenties »

insaneirish wrote: post #251
boring_twenties wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pretty standard in Finance that you're not eligible for a bonus until you have been with the company for a full year for exactly this reason. I don't think I've ever heard of this? I started at a bank in Q4 and got a pro-rated bonus.

Yep. Especially common to negotiate a "make whole" which compensates for whatever equity and annual bonus you're leaving on the table to jump. And to put it another way, if you're moving jobs in financial services without negotiating a make whole, you're not getting the best deal.

I mean it's like the easiest negotiating position ever, you don't even have to come out and say it.

"I'm very interested, but unfortunately I can't make any moves until February, when I get my bonus. Sucks, but what can you do?"

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#323

Post by justrudd »

mynameisash wrote: post #58
darknavi wrote: post #19

As a low-ish level MSFT employee I laughed at this line: > The move promises to bring Amazon’s base pay more in line with other big tech companies, including Google, Facebook, Apple and Microsoft. As a ~62/63 (almost senior or senior) at Microsoft my peers at Facebook, Google, and Amazon can easily make literally twice as much compensation a year in salary, stock, and cash bonuses. Microsoft isn't even in the ballpar…

64 here. I do occasionally dream about going elsewhere for beaucoup bucks (not that I'm complaining about my TC), but also, I do really love what I do, who I work with/for, etc. So I acknowledge the trade-off I'm making -- good W/L balance, very low stress, but not as much money as as my principal engineer friend @ Amazon makes.

I was a 63 being considered for 64 during my time at Microsoft. I loved it. Great W/L balance. Interesting work. Great coworkers. Was really looking to make that a long term gig.

But my org got disbanded, and I got rolled into Mobile (circa 2008/2009 when Ballmer was using the economic conditions as an excuse to shutdown orgs). I was there building the first Windows phone. I hated that org. It was all schedule chicken and politics (you could have an iPhone, but you couldn't use it during meetings in front of GM or higher). I had code reviews rejected for "You aren't going to need that". I'd point them at what was coming in the next cycle and got lectured about "you should be focused on your current tasks not future tasks" in writing. But in person (i.e. no written record), I was told to write the code how the reviewer wanted (a 64 or 65 as I recall) and just keep the changes stashed for when the real work showed up. I hated working that way. So I got blackballed for a shitty attitude (and rightfully so. My attitude was shit).

With that said, I'm still friends with some people at Microsoft. And they love it. Just gotta find the right org (just like Amazon, Google, etc.)

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#324

Post by jandrewrogers »

dvtrn wrote: post #276
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TC includes salary, stock, and bonus pre-tax. It doesn’t include 401k, medical, food or other fringe benefits.

It doesn’t include 401k, medical Ahh interesting, I assumed it included things like bonuses and equity, but am surprised to learn 401k contributions are not considered TC. Is this the case even for matched contributions made by the employer? Meaning if I contribute x (money I was compensated already as a portion of salary), and employer contributes %/x (money the company effectively "gives" me), is that percentage no…

Matched contributions to 401k are generally not considered part of total comp because there is no implication that the match can be converted into cash immediately, though this is often the case. Similarly, HSA contributions by the employer usually are not counted as total comp even though it is a form of cash benefit.

The rubric for all of these complicated and indirect forms of compensation is "benefits". These benefits are significantly limited in terms of practical cash value and rules around their use by regulation, whereas there is no bound on TC.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#325

Post by kccqzy »

tdhoot wrote: post #261
asd88 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering Google/Facebook your “peers” is a common mistake people at MSFT make when they complain about comp. MSFT targets 67 percentile pay (which is actually above median, contrary to what everyone says), while GOOG/FB target > 95. They may be your competitors, but they are certainly not your peers (at least market-wise). Microsoft has managed to have great business results with 67 percentile SWE talent for a dec…

Google's official stance is they target 75 percentile pay, not > 95. So not too far off from MS. My guess is they use different peer companies.

Hmm I can't find the source but I thought Google targets the 85th percentile not 75 or 95.

But then again the market data that Google uses isn't public (and certainly isn't levels.fyi) so there could be discrepancies.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#326

Post by grogers »

mrep wrote: post #218
sydthrowaway wrote: post #98

So the base pay was 185, now 350k Doesn't really make much difference, unless you were hiring finance bros. The total comp is what mattered.

Not entirely, RSUs are harder to use when qualifying for a mortgage.

Wouldn't you just show your N most recent W2s to your bank? Why would they care about your comp breakdown?

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#327

Post by gregdoesit »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #283
gregdoesit wrote: post #169

I’ve been talking to close to a dozen current and former Amazon employees since the end of 2021, and reached out to people publicly sharing attrition observations. Amazon attrition is really bad, even in AWS (Amazon employees all agree that AWS is a much better place to work in tech than Amazon retail). At the same time, Amazon has had to pay very high for new hires. Hiring managers used to need to get L10 approval t…

Your link took me to the home page. Is this the story? https://bigtechnology.substack.com/p/standing-up-for-us-pleb...

Yes, this is the one I meant to link. I can no longer edit my comment, unfortunately.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#328

Post by DesiLurker »

xxpor wrote: post #113
strikelaserclaw wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this the dude who just bought a 500mm yacht?

Seems pretty easy to me to differentiate someone's personal spending from their business values.

sounds like roundabout way of saying being super stingy with employees so he can live large. pretty much in line with everything else I know about Amazon/Bezos.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#329

Post by fhrow4484 »

loeg wrote: post #318
fhrow4484 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you're applying for a position where usual FAANG TC is 300k. Then Amazon recruiter wants to "match" that, so 300 * 4=1200k over 4 years. Base pay is maxed at 160 (until today's announcement), so 1200k-(160 * 4) = 560k to come up with with stocks and cash bonus. Let's say Amazon 30 day moving average share price during negotiation is $1200 a share So now recruiter must make math such that: - TC stays relativ…

I believe you're agreeing with GP; this is just a more fleshed out concrete example. From your example, they offer you 220 units, valued at 13+46+140+160 = $359k. However, if the stock stays perfectly flat, the actual value is $264k (220 * 1200).

Ah you're right, removing the "No, no, no" at top of my comment!

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#330

Post by hintymad »

hintymad wrote: post #316
lhorie wrote: post #145

Judging from what an insider in the HR org told me, we're going to be hearing a lot of stories like this going forward. Apparently, Amazon scale is so large and their attrition rates are so bad that in some markets, every potentially qualified candidate has already applied and failed an interview, or previously worked at Amazon and quit. As the adage goes, necessity is the mother of invention and Amazon seems to be a…

If it's just lowering equity payout, then it's not Netflix's structure. Netflix really tries to make its pay structure fair to its employees by implementing the following policies: 1. They give cash that is generally 20% higher than average market price. 2. If you convert your cash into options, you don't pay the income tax for the forfeited cash. It's your choice on how much cash you'd like to convert. And of course…

Mind you, though, Netflix's pay and scope are competitive for up to entry-level staff engineer with very few exceptions (Brendan Gregg is one such exception). That means every engineer writes code, is responsible for one or more services, and uses their services to assert their influence. Very few engineers get more than $800K or whatever comparable packages offered to Sr Staff/Principal engineers in other companies.

I personally view this as a strength of Netflix. They have such a wonderful culture that empowers its engineers to focus on building and being autonomous. They don't need people to drive company wide initiatives most of the time.

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