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The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

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Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#321

Post by skeaker »

jaaron wrote: post #306
ryeights wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...source?

Game industry would be one source. At least for many teams and projects, Git isn't very useful (horrible for large binary files common in AAA games). So many companies still use Perforce or sometimes you'll see SVN still. That means a whole bunch of really qualified engineers who have never or rarely used git. I'm sure there are other industries for which that is true too. It's a good reminder how small a section of…

I've encountered this myself as someone who maintains small open source games. Engineers with vastly more experience than I do have approached me with contributions, but needed me to walk them through installing and using git. You could tell they were good engineers because they were so eager and happy to learn it. I can't speak for how big of a demographic these types of engineers are but they certainly exist.

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#322

Post by Johnny555 »

amrrs wrote: post #169
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #40

I've been a hiring manager for remote positions for a long time. If your recruiting channels are good, most of your candidates are going to be honest and good intentioned. But interview enough people, and you'll start encountering people trying to abuse remote work. They're not interested in contributing to your company. They're only interested in collecting paychecks while they do as little work as possible for as l…

I'll present an alternate case, mine. I'm in a senior IC role sitting in India making almost 1/4th of what my US Counterpart makes. I work as much as them if not more. We as Indians are always taught to be sincere and obedient and I try to show that in my work trying to stay up finish the work so that my sincerity is never questioned. I'm always on the side to prove my quality - even though I'm highly underpaid for t…

I'm highly underpaid for the same work.

A large part of the justification of using outsourced workers is that they live in an area with a lower cost of living than the company's headquarters, so they can be paid less while still having a good quality of life.

So comparing your salary to American workers doesn't really say anything about whether or not you're "underpaid", but it's how your salary compares to others in your area. If you just want to earn more money, you could move to the USA, but there's a cost associated with that (even ignoring the difficulty in getting a work visa) and you may find that your "1/4 salary" is worth more at home that it is in the USA.|

There are certainly a lot of employees that have moved away from the SF Bay Area to take a job in an area with a lower cost of living and even though they make significiantly less money, they still have a better quality of life (in particular, they can afford a house)

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#323

Post by TehShrike »

Slaminerag wrote: post #289
kelnos wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apparently the obvious and easy solution here is to only get US-born hires. So why don't you? This seems to be an unnecessarily aggressive take on it. If I (an American) were working for an Indian company, I would plan to learn and understand what the culture is like in Indian companies, and then do my best to conform to that. If I didn't believe I'd feel comfortable in that environment, then I wouldn't take the jo…

I remember reading about a team (I think in Japan) which had a "brash foreigner." If someone noticed something, they'd mention it to the foreigner, who would bring it up with higher ups. Everybody won. Problems got fixed, the foreigner was safe because they "didn't know better," and their coworkers felt safe.

I was today years old when I discovered that the perfect job for me does exist

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#324

Post by kelnos »

Kranar wrote: post #302
kelnos wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To add insult to injury, the "engineers" on the team will update ther CV's to show that they worked for "large company X". And then when they apply to work at their next company, and that company wants to verify previous employment, the previous company that got screwed over is too worried about the possibility of getting sued to accuse the person of lying about who they were... so they'll just say "yes, Y worked h…

I'll admit straight up when I fire someone I am usually so relieved if they leave peacefully that I don't just say they worked for me, I will usually even give a semi positive review of them. Not a glowing praise or anything of the sort, but usually a review saying how they're a good team player, they get along well with others, and other aspects highlighting mostly soft skills. As I've indicated many times on here..…

That's good of you to do. I think it's pretty rare to be unable to say anything good about someone, and it nice to focus on those things when their future employment might be on the line.

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#325

Post by kelnos »

josefresco wrote: post #201
spaetzleesser wrote: post #115

We once had a contractor who interviewed pretty well. After a while I noticed that it was impossible to have a technical discussion with him. He only took notes and never said much. I also noticed that he never delivered anything the same day. He took notes and then next morning it was done. I once told him to fix a simple bug NOW and had him sit next to me. He starred at the screen for several hours and did nothing.…

If the "ghostwriter" was good, would you have cared?

I think the example parent gave was enough to answer that: if there was a critical issue that needed to be fixed in hours, this employee would have been unable to do it.

(Also agree with the sibling about it being good to know who you're giving access to your company's resources and private information. If someone is willing to lie about their skills and have someone else do their work overnight, what other sketchy things might they be doing without your knowledge?)

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#326

Post by bityard »

kelnos wrote: post #256
Osiris wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a guy who's actively interviewing to take on a second remote job while keeping his first. He has no plans to make either party aware that he has other employment. His argument is that at his current job he can get all of his assigned work done in 10-20 hours a week (though he doesn't share with them that he's basically only working part time) so he has plenty of time to take on a second job where he also expec…

I agree that the conflicting meetings bit could be tricky, but I don't think he has a moral obligation to inform either company of what's going on, assuming one company's work doesn't interfere with the assigned work from the other. Also I would hope that the two companies he ends up working at aren't even remotely in competition with each other, because that would be unethical. If both companies are happy with the g…

> but I don't think he has a moral obligation to inform either company of what's going on, assuming one company's work doesn't interfere with the assigned work from the other.

I strongly disagree. When you are hired as a full-time employee, the expectation is that you are giving your full 8 hours work day (or whatever) to the company in exchange for a paycheck. Otherwise, you are extracting full value from the company while they are getting half (or worse) value from you.

There are lots of people with a "screw everyone else, I got mine" attitude who don't see anything wrong with lying to your employer about how you are spending your time. I lump these people in with people who justify various forms of stealing with the rationale that it doesn't _really_ hurt the victim since some insurance comapany pays for the loss anyway. It demonstrates a severe lack of integrity. I would never want to work with or associate anyone like that.

I do however believe that "no moonlighting" clauses in employment contracts should be illegal. I ought to be able to use my skills to make extra money in my free time, as long is there is no apparent conflict of interest present (e.g. moonlighting for a competitor).

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#327

Post by kelnos »

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #213
klausjensen wrote: post #150

This is what the large Indian IT-outsourcing companies do at scale. When they need to win the contract, they bring in bright and very qualified people to win the client-org over. After the contract is won and the work begins, they replace them with completely unqualified staff, managed/whipped by moustache-wielding blue-shirts to read from support-scripts.

That's not the same thing. The "completely unqualified staff" is not pretending to be the same persons as the "bright and very qualified people" who interviewed. There's no deception involved, just transparently bad business practices.

It's not the same thing, to be sure, but this is certainly deception.

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#328

Post by reidrac »

skeaker wrote: post #321
jaaron wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game industry would be one source. At least for many teams and projects, Git isn't very useful (horrible for large binary files common in AAA games). So many companies still use Perforce or sometimes you'll see SVN still. That means a whole bunch of really qualified engineers who have never or rarely used git. I'm sure there are other industries for which that is true too. It's a good reminder how small a section of…

I've encountered this myself as someone who maintains small open source games. Engineers with vastly more experience than I do have approached me with contributions, but needed me to walk them through installing and using git. You could tell they were good engineers because they were so eager and happy to learn it. I can't speak for how big of a demographic these types of engineers are but they certainly exist.

> as someone who maintains small open source games

Are those public? Very intriguing, would you mind sharing a link?

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#329

Post by wil421 »

paxys wrote: post #145
cercatrova wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a whole community about this called Overemployed [0]. Their reddit posts are quite entertaining, like this guy who works 5 jobs and is making 1.2 million a year [1]. [0] https://overemployed.com/ [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/overemployed/comments/s12c8l/i_star...

I'll caution people to take this (and the rest of Reddit) with a huge grain of salt. Subreddits like this one are almost always just creative writing.

Former coworkers did this. One guy have 2 full time jobs and a project based contract job that didn’t always have active work. A former intern of mine’s coworker has 3 “full time”jobs.
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