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I got pwned by my cloud costs

troyhunt.com

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Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#321
post #107

Don't put Cloudflare in front of a Cloud egress bill. i.e. don't do this: Azure|Amazon > Cloudflare Always use your own proxy where the egress is well within your free tier, i.e. do this: Azure|Amazon > Hetzner|Linode > Cloudflare Why? Because Cloudflare cache is a massively multi-tenant LRU cache and whilst hot files will be cached well (and with Cloudflare Tiered Cache even better - but this itself is a cost) anyth…

> Azure|Amazon > Hetzner|Linode > Cloudflare

Why not directly Hetzner|Linode > Cloudflare?

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#322
post #125
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every cloud makes this mistake easy! You have to manually activate billing alerts for everyone because they want you to spend more snd more each month. I am still waiting for a cloud without these dark patterns. But that will never happen because it‘s leaving a big amount of money on the table by not being hostile.

Hetzner's cloud offer is limited but they limit your possible spending by default and it's very easy to set up billing alerts. I guess they mostly do it to ensure they get the money at the end of the month, but it's equally useful for their users.

Additionally Hetzner's egress pricing is a lot more cheaper. On hetzenr you pay 1,19€/TB (1.13$/TB) vs. 90$/TB on AWS. That's about ~80 time more on AWS!

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you take some kind of "managed hosting" where all of this is taken care of.

like AWS?

More like sth. starting at 35 €/month for 20 TB of traffic. Hetzner has something like that, shared managed webhosting is even cheaper.

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#324
post #56

Can somebody explain to me why I wouldn't just rent a 40 EUR dedicated server from Hetzner with unlimited traffic and gigabit uplink? His 600GB/day is way less than what you get over a gigabit link within a day. Sure, sudden bursts would perhaps "throttle" at a gigabit, but according to his article that was only the cloudflare proxy anyhow, so no pain in having that take a few seconds longer. As far as I am concerned…

Just did the calc and 600GB/day is about 55Mbit/s. That's really not a lot and if there's not too much computation server-side you could serve this from a raspberry pi at home (provided you have good uplink). But that's assuming you keep the CloudFlare cache of course, or as author mentioned himself, advertising only torrents for the multi-gig files. I really don't understand the cloud craze. Everything is more compl…

> Everything is more complex to debug, more expensive, and more shitty in all the possible ways you can imagine.

Coming from traditional infrastructure and development methods, you're mostly right. Part of the expectation of the cloud is that you do things _their way_. And even then each cloud provider does things a little differently. However, if you're willing to subscribe to the way of doing things it (and you'll have to trust me here) makes many things easier. Here's a short list:

* networking setup is free/cheap/doesn't require a Cisco cert. you can trust a developer to set things up.

* object storage is so much easier than any file hosting scheme you can come up with

* the path from container-on-a-host to container-in-a-cluster to container-in-{serverless,k8s} is extremely straightforward

* I turn all my dev/test servers off at night and they don't cost me a thing

* consumption based compute will result in a much cheaper solution than a VPS or colo (admittedly there are many assumptions baked into this)

* some core services (like sqs, sns on Amazon) are extremely cheap and have provably reduced development time because you're not having to build these abstractions yourself.

This all being said I'm not advocating an all-in approach without thinking it through, but to do so where it's easy and makes sense.

EDIT: clarity

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#325
This guy needs to clean up his bio. There seems to be a lot of confusion on whether or not he works for Microsoft when it appears that he is a uhh... reverse pay midlevel manager inter?

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#326
post #56

Can somebody explain to me why I wouldn't just rent a 40 EUR dedicated server from Hetzner with unlimited traffic and gigabit uplink? His 600GB/day is way less than what you get over a gigabit link within a day. Sure, sudden bursts would perhaps "throttle" at a gigabit, but according to his article that was only the cloudflare proxy anyhow, so no pain in having that take a few seconds longer. As far as I am concerned…

Just did the calc and 600GB/day is about 55Mbit/s. That's really not a lot and if there's not too much computation server-side you could serve this from a raspberry pi at home (provided you have good uplink). But that's assuming you keep the CloudFlare cache of course, or as author mentioned himself, advertising only torrents for the multi-gig files. I really don't understand the cloud craze. Everything is more compl…

You're not the target audience.

Startups growing fast are the secondary audience.

The primary audience is large enterprises where their internal IT costs > than the cloud costs. Plus internal IT provides those resources after 6 months...

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a size where on prem would be much cheaper on paper, but internal red tape for access to internal resources is such that teams are unnecessarily slowed down. For example I once worked at a place where it took several months to get an additional on-prem box to speed up our CI pipeline. Of course you can also add that amount of red tape to a cloud solution, but in my experience it's easier to get approval for…

On-prem and AWS/GCS/Azure aren't the only options. There are smaller cloud providers, rented VMs, rented dedicated servers and rented colocation space.

For larger companies, frequently they are. You need to use already approved vendors.

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cloud is great for scaling. The lead time for new servers deployed in a data center is weeks compared to seconds in the cloud. Plus there's no sunk cost in the cloud - you can turn it off when done and it evaporates. Also, the cloud offers managed software as a service. You don't have to manage your own HA DB cluster or PubSub. It's all just there and it works. That can save you a lot on technical labor costs. Bu…

The technical ability to scale is a bit meaningless if you can't afford it.

Then that becomes part of your business + technology planning conversations:

"This is the cost of scaling, this is the cost of owning our own infra, how does that fit into our budgeting and requirements?"

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#329
post #56

Can somebody explain to me why I wouldn't just rent a 40 EUR dedicated server from Hetzner with unlimited traffic and gigabit uplink? His 600GB/day is way less than what you get over a gigabit link within a day. Sure, sudden bursts would perhaps "throttle" at a gigabit, but according to his article that was only the cloudflare proxy anyhow, so no pain in having that take a few seconds longer. As far as I am concerned…

Wouldn't riding a horse prevent that car crash?

Re: I got pwned by my cloud costs

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you configured your client to hide enough information, Cloudflare tends to believe you are a threat. VPN users probably have that problem a lot more.

You don't have to hide any information. I don't hide any information and still get blocked because of the country I reside in.

Yeah, but even if you’re in an “acceptable” country you get blocked if you care about privacy. The point is that CF often blocks people.
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