Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 1001 posts

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#321

Post by tharne »

P_I_Staker wrote: post #59
tharne wrote: post #4

Don't worry, in 5-10 years it will be good for you again. I still remember being lectured in school on the food pyramid and the importance of getting your 8-10 servings of grains a day.

While the grains thing was particularly stupid advice, recommendations haven’t changed as much as you’d think. The guidelines from reputable sources as far back as the 60s and 70s were fine. They didn’t understand how deadly refined carbs were, but recommended eating fruits, vegetables while limiting desserts and too much fatty meat; now you might be eating a bit too much carbs without understanding the risks, but yo…

> It’s always seemed silly that just the right amount of poison is good somehow

Why is it silly? A lot of things are dose dependent. A small amount of tylenol makes you head feel better. A lot of tylenol kills you. Lifting weights is very good for your health, but if you overdo it, you can get seriously hurt. A stressful day here and there is harmless, but if you're under constant, chronic, stress, your health will deteriorate. Four hours of sleep will leave you feeling terrible, 7-8 hours will leave you feeling rested, and 14 hours will likely leave you feeling terrible. I could go on, but I'd argue that dose-dependency is the rule rather than the exception.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#322

Post by pmlamotte »

the_only_law wrote: post #195
caeril wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: alcohol is one of the best drugs on the planet for anyone on the spectrum of introversion to crippling social anxiety. In all my (many) years, I have found no better path to becoming socially acceptable (even likable) to neurotypicals/extroverts than 3-4 shots of vodka. This is an unfortunate, but very real fact for many of us. I've heard good things about Phenibut, but (1) it's very difficult to obtain…

I’ve recently taken to trying Kava, which seems to be relatively popular among people trying to quit alcohol/benzos/etc. Supposedly it also helps with disinhibition and socialization, but admittedly I haven’t tried it in a social setting so I’m not sure myself. It certainly does relax me and chill me out though without the dumbing down of alcohol. Of course, by the things I’ve seen in those “pop-medical” sites that f…

Can definitely second kava. I went to a kava bar several times a few months ago and found it to be a great alcohol alternative. It also filled the niche of being a place where the atmosphere was more similar to a cafe so I could read a book or work on something in isolation, but without the downside of caffeine where you can't do that in the evening without ruining sleep quality. The social effects were definitely there.

Like you said, the crowd was largely people trying to quit or who had quit alcohol or benzos along with a fair amount of neurodivergent people. Being able to set aside some of my social anxiety and talk with them is part of what led to me getting assessed and diagnosed for autism recently.

The grandparent comment also mentioned phenibut which I find even more enjoyable, but like they said it can be habit forming and has a tolerance build up that limits safe use to once or twice a week.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#324

Post by kritiko »

sokoloff wrote: post #92
trentnix wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue. Literally everyone involved in the treatment and support of substance abuse does that, whether it's treatment facilities or social groups like AA and Al-Anon. As they should. Every family I know has been affected in one way or another by drug or alcohol addiction and has firsthand knowledge that substance abus…

Have 1000 people tell their boss they need a month of paid leave to deal with an acute cancer treatment or recover from a kidney transplant. Have 1000 people tell their boss they need a month of paid leave to deal with alcohol addiction. Measure the immediate reactions and future performance review and employment outcomes of the two groups. Do you expect them to be the same as each other? I don’t and I think it comes…

I think many managers would prefer the latter because getting sober should have mainly positive effects on my employee's health and performance whereas an organ transplant or cancer seems much more likely to come with longterm disability and accommodation needs...

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#325

Post by selectodude »

yonaguska wrote: post #276
selectodude wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, mRNA immunotherapies for cancer have been being injected into people for almost 20 years now. Efficacy aside, we know the medium-long term outcomes of injecting ourselves with mRNA.

The relative risk reduction for potentially catching covid-19 vs actually having cancer are radically different. Long to medium term risk of adverse effects from mRNA therapies are probably not weighed heavily against imminent eventuality of short term death with cancer. Edit- that's not to say I don't disagree with you on us knowing the long-medium term risks of mRNA therapies.

I'm not getting into the relative merits of vaccination, I'm merely saying that mRNA isn't going to hurt you. Even decades from now. We know there are no medium-term risks of mRNA therapies because the otherwise healthy people who have injected themselves with mRNA are still alive and kicking.

Here is the first Phase I test of an mRNA vaccine from 2013.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02241135

Here's a phase I trial for mRNA therapies from 2005.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00204516

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#326

Post by nabla9 »

colechristensen wrote: post #304
nabla9 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are plenty of studies showing benefits. Yes. And these studies are being exposed as the product of alcohol lobby. https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/3/21/17139036/he... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6055701/

I am perfectly aware of p-hackng. I still don’t believe it without actual evidence, I get strong vibes of people wanting this to be true which would take more than a little evidence to overcome.

The alcohol industry gave the government money to prove moderate drinking is safe https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/3/21/17139036/he...

Alcohol industry involvement in science: A systematic review of the perspectives of the alcohol research community https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6055701/

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#327

Post by slothtrop »

solox3 wrote: post #202

I am fine with abstinence as a general recommendation, but critical thinking pointed out two issues with the WHF Policy Brief, which I suppose I have read in sufficient depth: 1. There is no citation on the sentence, "Recent evidence has found that no level of alcohol consumption is safe for health." This is really the only line we are interested in. 2. There is no comparison on the effects of alcohol on the body by…

As I recall, for this particular bit of research that I read a couple of months ago, more precisely it states there is no clear discernible level of consumption that could be deemed "safe". That's not really a surprise if you look at the data because it's such a mess. You also can't pin a point at which consumption is a high risk. What does that tell us?

You can however surmise that low / moderate consumption is not associated with high risk of mortality. There is "risk" insofar as it is non-null, anything above zero is unsafe. So what? That doesn't mean it's significant.

edit: this appears to criticize the paper - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/articl...

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#328

Post by kstrauser »

darod wrote: post #285
kstrauser wrote: post #159

Although I live in a place where weed is legal, I don’t use it. I enjoy the occasional glass of a nice scotch, though, and I love a good stout or porter beer. This is where it gets a little strange for me: by every metric I can think of, I’d be better off replacing alcohol with weed. There seem to be fewer negative effects, it’s not a source of empty calories, and looks like a better recreational drug in every way. A…

"it’s not a source of empty calories" Until you get the munchies...

Hah, fair point. The Jack in the Box around the corner advertises:

- Late night “munchie meals” (https://jackinthebox.fandom.com/wiki/Jack%27s_Munchie_Meal)

- Delivery until 3 AM.

That can’t be a healthy combination.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#329

Post by MAGZine »

mint2 wrote: post #281
asdf_snar wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then at some point people, as adults, feel like they have to drink to enjoy themselves? I wonder what happened. It feels like this question is disingenuous. You don't need fire starter to start a fire either, but wouldn't it be silly to conclude fire starter doesn't make starting a fire easier? Moderate alcohol consumption in an intimate environment is a lot of fun. Put differently, if alcohol didn't present such s…

More apt analogy than one would think. lighter fluid and any product specifically labeled a fire starter do not really help if one has a basic understanding of fire except in extreme cases like for some reason the wood is soaking wet. And they have significant downsides in cost. lighter fluid is just gross. With even a modest understanding of how fire works all one needs is wood. Newspaper is good for charcoal. “Fire…

we're missing the point here, but newspaper isn't good for charcoal. You need sustained heat to activate charcoal--paper burns too quickly. The one time I tried to do this, I ended up slathering it in olive oil which would retard the flames a bit and drag the burn out.

It's fine if you don't like to drink, nobody is saying you have to, but saying that it doesn't lubricate social situations is just naive. Is it a crutch? In some cases, sure. In other cases--an enhancer.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#330

Post by yuuu »

kreeben wrote: post #317
yuuu wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always scoffed at people who believed "a glass of wine every night is good for you." It seems pretty obvious that ingesting literal poison every day is not good for you.

Calming your nerves lowers your heart rate. Lower heart rate leads to less heart problems. Less heart problems leads to longer life. A glass of wine calms your nerves.

Alcohol increases your heart rate.
Post reply on HN