More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years • Hacker News Board

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#321

Post by ljhsiung » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:56 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #193

ChicagoDave wrote: post #28

I have 3 college-aged kids and one nearly there. Their universal concern is the cost. It has become prohibitive. Colleges assumed the trend of charging $25k to $50k per year would be sustainable. They were dead wrong, especially given the horrendously predatory loans backed by the government and barred from bankruptcy. If we fix the college financial system, enrollment would likely skyrocket.

> Colleges assumed the trend of charging $25k to $50k per year would be sustainable. Barely anyone pays full tuition. Look up the statistics for any of the big colleges that share numbers. It’s usually less than 10% of students paying full tuition. Significant numbers of students pay under $10K and many pay basically nothing at all. It’s still too expensive, but the myth that everybody is paying $50K/year at these co…

Can I see your source?

Here's mine [1] -- at UIUC, full tuition is 35-50k depending on residency. 30% get free tuition (given their family's net worth Assuming very generous loans (unlikely), 30% of people paid full price, or about 10,000 students (undergrad class size is 30-35k). That's not trivial, but definitely off your 10% claim.

(Here [2] it is more succinctly, and not in a large picturesque landing page advertisement fashion)

Now some anecdata-- I paid 35k. Every college friend I knew also paid full, except one, who had crazy interest rates on her loan. I recognize my friend group may be a bubble, so I preface this with "anecdata" and gave you some sources on my own.

[1] https://admissions.illinois.edu/invest/financial-aid

[2] https://osfa.illinois.edu/other-financial-aid-options/

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#322

Post by agentdrtran » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:56 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #56

ChicagoDave wrote: post #28

I have 3 college-aged kids and one nearly there. Their universal concern is the cost. It has become prohibitive. Colleges assumed the trend of charging $25k to $50k per year would be sustainable. They were dead wrong, especially given the horrendously predatory loans backed by the government and barred from bankruptcy. If we fix the college financial system, enrollment would likely skyrocket.

I've heard tales of people with interest rates of 7%+ on student loans, and the official rates are not incredibly low either: https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/interest-r... Any loan that is charging 6.28% interest and also cant be discharged by bankruptcy is just usury with current interest rates.

I had 11% interest rates my first two years, but I had to take out private loans.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#323

Post by dqv » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:57 PM UTC

kd913 wrote: post #289

dqv wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You talk about young people as if in their own world able to act autonomously away from the rest of society. Young people have parents. And they frequently rely on them into their mid-twenties. Many young people lost one or both of their parents from this (and other people they loved dearly). As has been repeated elsewhere, dying isn’t the only thing their parents and loved ones have to worry about having had COVID.…

We have vaccines now, we aren't in the same situation as the beginning of the pandemic. The purpose of the lockdown wasn't to prevent deaths, it was to prevent the hospital systems collapsing.

>wasn't to prevent deaths

>it was to prevent the hospital systems collapsing

Can you please apply this logic a little further as to what would occur if the hospital systems collapsed? Do you want me to spell it out for you?

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#324

Post by jimmyjazz14 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:57 PM UTC

I feel that for many people a good trade school would offer the best future and as we are seeing shortages in some important trade work it would be useful for society as well.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#325

Post by l8rpeace » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:58 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #53

As the father of a 16-year old, I can say that the current generation of teenagers has heard a lot more about the issues of college debt than previous generations did. Partly because it's a lot higher, partly because even if newsmedia doesn't report on it, there are enough adults out there saddled with it that they just hear about it from a relative or friend. It used to be a no-brainer; you go to college if you can.…

I can relate to info/knowledge about that edu debt, went to undergrad in the 90's and while I might be naive, I can say I didn't comprehend the debt side of things. And my edu debt pales in comparison to today's students. Fortunately I grew up, buckled down, and paid it off but there were some lean years right after school. Now? I can't even imagine.

And I also agree: how will these institutions scale back? What if tuition was cut significantly? What programs are on the chopping block?

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#326

Post by ericd » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:58 PM UTC

valeness wrote: post #200

ejb999 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>IMO 30k in student debt is very manageable, currently have the thing paid down to like $12k and I like knowing I can reach into savings at any time and wipe out this debt if need be. Absolutely - $30K in debt is completely reasonable imo; if after 4 years in college you have not improved your job prospects enough to cover that payment, then you probably didn't work very hard, or didn't pick a marketable major. Most…

Assuming 20k in debt is more than manageable for most people really says more about you than it does others who can't pay that back. The OP said he could just "reach into savings" and whip out 12k. That is an INCREDIBLY privileged position to be in and I would urge you both to re-evaluate your perspective. People taking care of their sick mother, or paying for expensive medication for chronic illnesses, or living in…

People are obviously willing to pay some price for the arts, but perhaps not enough to support all the people who want to work in them at a very high standard of living. It's generally not been a very well compensated field throughout history for a reason.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#327

Post by nslice » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:59 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #63

We have to do something about what people think college is to an employer. I'm excluding courses where you specifically need the degree: medicine, law, and maybe some others. Clearly you can't be a doctor or lawyer who hasn't passed his exams. Also if you are going to be a professor or phd naturally you will need to have studied whatever it is. For everyone else, all college does is shows people that you are diligent…

A degree is just a filter. If you get 200 applications for a job listing, you are going to prioritize those with relevant degrees.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#328

Post by jimmyjazz14 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:59 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #314

There are three problems that colleges need to fix. 1) Skilled trades pay better than most bachelor's degree track jobs. My kids can make more money with a six month apprenticeship than they will with all but a few 4 year degrees. If you can drive a forklift, you can make $45K/yr... which is identical to what an firsty year teacher makes. 2) There are better options than college for many. One of my daughters did a si…

I don't think the first two are problems colleges need to fix I think its more of a matter that we need to change our mindset about who should be attending college maybe some people would be better off going the trade school route.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#329

Post by NobodyNada » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:59 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #181

ChicagoDave wrote: post #28

I have 3 college-aged kids and one nearly there. Their universal concern is the cost. It has become prohibitive. Colleges assumed the trend of charging $25k to $50k per year would be sustainable. They were dead wrong, especially given the horrendously predatory loans backed by the government and barred from bankruptcy. If we fix the college financial system, enrollment would likely skyrocket.

Public schools average about $10k per year for in-state students. That's a far cry from the $25k-$50k per year people tend to quote when arguing against the cost of college. How important that difference is depends on which state a student lives in. In California there are literally dozens of options including several prestigious ones, whereas many states only have a couple of middling schools to choose from, and out…

> Public schools average about $10k per year for in-state students.

Where is that? At my school (Oregon State University) in-state tuition is $13k, and room & board is an additional $13k (which is way overpriced -- more than double what you'd pay in rent & groceries living off-campus, but all first-year students are required to live in the dorms). And out-of-state tuition is triple the in-state rate. So that $25k-50k estimate is exactly on-point here.

Re: More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest numbers in 50 years

#330

Post by Damogran6 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:59 PM UTC

I have two boys in post-secondary education (it would be SO much easier to say 'college', but one is in a community college and the other is in a Technical school)

During a parent/student College night, the perky 20-something group of presenters did a GREAT job of showing the schools, the perks, the ways to knock a little off the top (every student gets a scholarship! every student gets in-state tuition!)

They didn't count on me being good at math, and my reluctance to add nearly $600k in family debt over 4 years...that's double my mortgage, and I have 30 years to pay that off.

I decided as the patriarch that our family didn't need to prop up a broken system. I'm hopeful that I'm not scuttling my children's chances by doing so.

So I'm footing half the bill, and the boys are acquiring $20k or so a piece in student loans. I'm hoping that's enough for them to get their first job, because in my experience, that's the last time the sheepskin had any impact on my career.