How I got wealthy without working too hard • Hacker News Board

Re: How I got wealthy without working too hard

#321

Post by bambax » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 1:30 AM UTC

edanm wrote: post #317

bambax wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are those expensive hobbies and luxuries? My hobbies cost about zero (making music, doing the occasional woodworking, reading, walking). Travel can be expensive but it can also be quite cheap and is very dispensable. Luxuries outside of travel (expensive hotels), I don't even know what they are. I'm sure it's not hard to spend as much money as you want on many different things; but you make it sound as if it was…

Having kids, while not a hobby, can certainly be expensive, and is probably the most obvious missing consideration here. It also makes a lot of other things less flexible, which tends to cost more money. (Want to go to a movie at night? Now there's a babysitter involved). Kids aside, lots of things cost money. You like eating at nice restaurants? Money. Prefer to home cook nice meals? Great, equipment costs, therefor…

Equipment costs are not exactly costs. They are investments that can be amortized over many years. Cooking utensils are not free but they last a lifetime, sometimes longer. I have pans and pots from my grandmother; and old gear is often better than new gear.

If one has money then spending it is good, of course. The question is, what are we willing to give up to get more money, and for what. I would argue time is infinitely more precious than money, above a threshold -- but the threshold is very low.

Re: How I got wealthy without working too hard

#322

Post by LegitShady » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 1:41 AM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #311

LegitShady wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

halifax is still livable if you get money from someplace that isn't halifax, but what does that say to the future of halifax? Who will provide all the services when they can't afford to live there on halifax incomes? What's the healthcare availability in NS compared to other provinces - Halifax healthcare was in crisis even before COVID. Just in October they announced that the child healthcare system was at capacity…

Welcome to the Bay Area, where the only people who can buy houses are those that can funnel the retirement funds of the world into their pockets. The answer for us is that all the local service providers live far outside the core urban areas and have terrible commutes. Or they double or triple-up, multiple families per unit. As the area becomes increasingly unlivable for people that do the local gruntwork, a number o…

You wi t have healthcare or city services and you'll create crazy crime waves as I equality grows but hey I guess that is the bag area - with lack of self awareness included.

Re: How I got wealthy without working too hard

#323

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 1:43 AM UTC

bambax wrote: post #321

edanm wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having kids, while not a hobby, can certainly be expensive, and is probably the most obvious missing consideration here. It also makes a lot of other things less flexible, which tends to cost more money. (Want to go to a movie at night? Now there's a babysitter involved). Kids aside, lots of things cost money. You like eating at nice restaurants? Money. Prefer to home cook nice meals? Great, equipment costs, therefor…

Equipment costs are not exactly costs. They are investments that can be amortized over many years. Cooking utensils are not free but they last a lifetime, sometimes longer. I have pans and pots from my grandmother; and old gear is often better than new gear. If one has money then spending it is good, of course. The question is, what are we willing to give up to get more money, and for what. I would argue time is infi…

> Equipment costs are not exactly costs.

Yes, they are.

> They are investments that can be amortized over many years.

So, they are capex rather than opex costs.

> I would argue time is infinitely more precious than money,

Were that true, the market clearing price of people's time denominated in money would be infinite. Which would be inconvenient, since largely money exists to enable the indirect exchange of time for time (largely, as labor).

Re: How I got wealthy without working too hard

#324

Post by bambax » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 1:58 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #323

bambax wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equipment costs are not exactly costs. They are investments that can be amortized over many years. Cooking utensils are not free but they last a lifetime, sometimes longer. I have pans and pots from my grandmother; and old gear is often better than new gear. If one has money then spending it is good, of course. The question is, what are we willing to give up to get more money, and for what. I would argue time is infi…

> Equipment costs are not exactly costs. Yes, they are. > They are investments that can be amortized over many years. So, they are capex rather than opex costs. > I would argue time is infinitely more precious than money, Were that true, the market clearing price of people's time denominated in money would be infinite. Which would be inconvenient, since largely money exists to enable the indirect exchange of time for…

Yes, that's the reason why we are having this discussion, and the point of TFA. Some people think one should work for as long and as hard as possible in order to maximize their revenue. Others think that once their basic needs are covered, doing more work is pointless.

This difference has existed for a long time. It's discussed at length in Max Weber's Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism for example, which has funny things to say about the philosophy developed in Ben Franklin's autobiography.

Re: How I got wealthy without working too hard

#325

Post by yoyohello13 » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 2:11 AM UTC

gamechangr wrote: post #310

shiftpgdn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest reality check in my life was working at an engineering firm with a bunch of near retirement baby boomers with no children. They all came across ass listless, unhappy, and living a life with no greater purpose. It was unquestionably one of the ugliest things I have ever seen. As you get older and friends drift and pass away family is one of the most important things in life. I know anti-natalism is hip rig…

It is super popular to be against the idea that kids will add value in your life. I am not sure Hacker News is the right demographic to understand the value of parenthood. Most parents would agree that having kids is life changing for the better.

> I am not sure Hacker News is the right demographic to understand the value of parenthood.

I don't know. Seems like I see a comment espousing the joys of parenthood almost every day on here.

Re: How I got wealthy without working too hard

#326

Post by edanm » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 3:23 AM UTC

bambax wrote: post #321

edanm wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having kids, while not a hobby, can certainly be expensive, and is probably the most obvious missing consideration here. It also makes a lot of other things less flexible, which tends to cost more money. (Want to go to a movie at night? Now there's a babysitter involved). Kids aside, lots of things cost money. You like eating at nice restaurants? Money. Prefer to home cook nice meals? Great, equipment costs, therefor…

Equipment costs are not exactly costs. They are investments that can be amortized over many years. Cooking utensils are not free but they last a lifetime, sometimes longer. I have pans and pots from my grandmother; and old gear is often better than new gear. If one has money then spending it is good, of course. The question is, what are we willing to give up to get more money, and for what. I would argue time is infi…

I mean, that depends. Equipment costs are certainly investments, and things like cooking utensils can be handed down...

But if you're a software developer like OP, then you need a computer. You probably want a second (or third) monitor. The computer probably needs to be replaced every few years, and you're probably getting a relatively expensive machine.

Add to that an office - desk, good chair, etc. If you're trying to save money, yeah, you might not be getting a fancy expensive chair. But if you have the money to spend, I'd argue it's still a good investment for your back. Etc.

Now you can consider all of these as investments, but then how much you make as a contractor has to take that into account.

(Btw, didn't get into this, but the article is missing a lot of things you need to think about as a contractor, e.g. there's often downtime between projects, sick days, insurance is usually a good idea, etc. I've been doing this kind of thing for basically 10 years, it's not as simple as OP makes it sound.)

Re: How I got wealthy without working too hard

#327

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 3:51 AM UTC

throwaway143256 wrote: post #101

Chris2048 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take a $ 500-1000 / day, full-remote job How common is this as contractor pay outside the US? I'd find it hard to hit the lower end of that (i.e. 440 eur per day) in fully-remote jobs, despite the pandemic making remote jobs more common. For context, I'm a Python dev, in finance. I used to do Java, which I note still seems to offer higher salaries, but I wouldn't be tempted to return. Maybe the AWS route could work…

Very common, worked Netherlands, Belgium and Germany for ~10 years, doing 200k eur annually on average, contracting, Python, Java, senior dev, devops, etc. My immediate contracting colleagues, about 20 guys and gals are doing comparatively (I.e., ~90 to 120 eur rates, ~2000 hours a year). Edit: apparently very common for my bubble at least, no idea if this is “normal” In Netherlands, Belgium and Germany..

[deleted]

Re: How I got wealthy without working too hard

#328

Post by BeetleB » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 4:36 AM UTC

yupper32 wrote: post #198

antisthenes wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I once shared this outlook, but when one considers their own ideas about the lifestyle "wealthy" entails, and run some numbers, specifically determine the annual spend for that lifestyle, one will quickly realize the truth. In other words, at some point you underwent lifestyle inflation and didn't realize it. And now you're unwilling to give it up. > Of course this depends on location and cost of living. I am refer…

> Millions of people raise families on 40k/year in the United States. These are your fellow citizens. Perhaps you can ask them how they do it and whether they are "satisfied" with that level of income and lifestyle. I have. They are not satisfied. $40k Taxes - $5000/year. Monthly budget: $35k/12 = ~$2900/month Rent - $1200 Utilities (incl. tv + internet + phone + gas + elec) - $300 Car payment - $300 Car insurance -…

Not going to argue with the larger point you're making, but to nitpick:

> Car payment - $300

Is way too high. I know it's "common", but it's also entirely unnecessary to pay that much. If I add up the cost of owning a car (purchase price + maintenance, but not gas), it has never been that high for any of the cars I've owned in the last 20 years. Not even close.

Buy old reliable cars. Even if one of them ends up being a bad deal you'll easily average out to less than $300/mo.

> Health insurance - $500

If your income is $40K/year, you'll pay less than that (if you're single).

> Rent - $1200

Assumption would be that you've paid for the place. Otherwise, this number is highly variable.

> Taxes - $5000/year.

I doubt it. Will highly depend on the state. You have various deductions, etc that will bring your MAGI down quite significantly.

I lived on the equivalent of today's $32K/year for many years very comfortably. Had hobbies, bought pricey electronics, and traveled cross country often - always staying at motels (so not camping or sleeping in the car).

> I'm not making any of that up. That's real. Why don't you talk to people instead of pretending like $40k is enough to be "satisfied"?

As noted above, I lived on less for years. I didn't even try to be frugal. I won't claim everyone will have it as easy as me, but I can assure you that I was not an extreme outlier. I hung around those with similar income, and their experiences matched mine.

Re: How I got wealthy without working too hard

#329

Post by pillefitz » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 5:06 AM UTC

jdminhbg wrote: post #263

soperj wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They live in the UK. Health insurance is literally a non factor in the developed world other than the US.

In Germany, the public option for health insurance runs you 14.6% of your income[0]. That is not a non factor. [0]: https://welcome-center-germany.com/health-insurance-for-self...

But it's capped at roughly 400€/month for each employer/employee

Re: How I got wealthy without working too hard

#330

Post by TMWNN » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 7:41 AM UTC

soperj wrote: post #119

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #14

> Take a $ 500-1000 / day, full-remote job > Take 2 months for holidays in-between contracts > Do this for 7 years while investing most of your salary in a diversified portfolio. Working $1000/day contracts for 5 days per week, 10 months per year is equivalent to $217K of contractor income per year. But contractor income is not comparable to normal career income because you have to handle additional taxes and health…

They live in the UK. Health insurance is literally a non factor in the developed world other than the US.

You're almost certainly an American, who thinks that a) healthcare throughout the developed world other than the US is just like the NHS, and b) the taxes that go to pay for the NHS are inconsequential.

jdminhbg gave Germany as an example of a country that doesn't follow the NHS example. The German model of insurance based on public and private sickness funds, separate from hospitals and doctors, is a) closer to the "average" among developed countries than the monolithic NHS model of unified ownership of payer and delivery, and b) more or less what the US has post-Obamacare; the main difference is that it is harder (not impossible) to evade the mandate in Germany than in the US.