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Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

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Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#321

Post by antod »

seoaeu wrote: post #127
VictorPath wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel launched over 900 attacks on Gaza in May, killed hundreds of Palestinians, and displaced tens of thousands of Palestinians. The UN estimate is 461 housing and commercial units were destroyed by Israel's bombing of Gaza. I don't dispute even more could have been killed by Israel and more destroyed by Israel if the United Nations Security Council did not call for an ending to it and that if that did not happen "…

A quick google search reveals that the US launched 2800000 ground attack missions during the Vietnam war, dropping 15000000000 pounds of bombs. That works out to an average of several hundred attacks per day for two decades. I also encourage you to look at Wikipedia's List of ongoing armed conflicts [1], which lists the Israeli–Palestinian conflict as a "Minor Conflict" given its scale in comparison to the other entr…

Seems a bit over the top to use the Vietnam War as a benchmark for the size of any bombing campaign, unless the benchmark is going for "largest ever by quite a margin".

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#322

Post by vxNsr »

whimsicalism wrote: post #314
vxNsr wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> assassinating innocent civilians abroad care to provide a source or evidence for this allegation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair Not to include the 4 innocent bystanders on the street killed by a Mossad car bombing (they're only terrorist attacks when they're not perpetrated by state security services I guess) when they actually found the right guy. And to include civilian nuclear scientists are also that: civilians.

lillehammer I didn't know about, but that looks like a case of mistaken identity. The actual target wasn't by any means innocent.

which innoncent civilian nuclear scientists have the israelis killed?

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#323

Post by whimsicalism »

vxNsr wrote: post #322
whimsicalism wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair Not to include the 4 innocent bystanders on the street killed by a Mossad car bombing (they're only terrorist attacks when they're not perpetrated by state security services I guess) when they actually found the right guy. And to include civilian nuclear scientists are also that: civilians.

lillehammer I didn't know about, but that looks like a case of mistaken identity. The actual target wasn't by any means innocent. which innoncent civilian nuclear scientists have the israelis killed?

Perhaps if they actually had due process of law they wouldn't go around killing Norwegian citizens because of mistaken identity.

Working in weapons research does not make you a legitimate target of warfare. Given that Iranian nuclear scientists weren't involved in active combat operations, they should not be murdered without due process either.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#324

Post by mike_d »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #31
stef25 wrote: post #15

Slightly OT - Isn't it obvious that NSO must be able to control every "copy" of Pegasus it sells? They wouldn't sell it unless they were absolutely sure it wouldn't be used against its own people and they have no problem selling to their arch enemies. NSO's defense has always been "we just sell the tech and can't be held responsible for what our clients do with it" (this was clear from the Darknet Diaries episode). I…

> (this was clear from the Darknet Diaries episode) think that episode also mentioned it iirc ... that the plausible deniability goes out the window the minute they host their own infrastructure. also NSO Group goes through great length to obscure who they're selling to using shell and shelf companies. actually indistinguishable from how narco terrorists and organized crime operates: https://forensicnews.net/the-cove…

> that the plausible deniability goes out the window the minute they host their own infrastructure

NSO operates the infrastructure and customers provide a list of phone numbers. They will launch exploitation against the provided numbers without any knowledge of who owns the phone (as long as the number isn't from a restricted country like Israel or the US). Once the implant calls back it goes to a portal where the customer can control it.

I'd fault NSO for a lot of things, but they just aren't in a position to know if a burner phone belongs to a journalist or a foreign diplomat until it has been popped. They do have to trust their customers to an extent.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#325

Post by int_19h »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #312
helge9210 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a case couple of years ago near Salfit (Palestinian town near the end of the road 5). First, someone "shot at security vehicle". I remember telling my wife after reading the news: "See what happens next". Of course, the barged into Salfit to "retrieve video recordings from CCTV cameras" shooting some mid-aged man in front of his family. It was already clear, what will happen next. In couple of days 19 y.o.…

>It was already clear, what will happen next. Is it? The attempted murder of innocent people? Is that the sort of behaviour that should be accepted and tolerated? because it sounds like you are saying that.

It shouldn't be accepted and tolerated, but it's disingenuous to discuss it without mentioning the reasons why it happened in the first place.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#326

Post by CapricornNoble »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #312
helge9210 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a case couple of years ago near Salfit (Palestinian town near the end of the road 5). First, someone "shot at security vehicle". I remember telling my wife after reading the news: "See what happens next". Of course, the barged into Salfit to "retrieve video recordings from CCTV cameras" shooting some mid-aged man in front of his family. It was already clear, what will happen next. In couple of days 19 y.o.…

>It was already clear, what will happen next. Is it? The attempted murder of innocent people? Is that the sort of behaviour that should be accepted and tolerated? because it sounds like you are saying that.

I think he's saying the turn of events is tragically predictable, and we SHOULDN'T accept or tolerate it. That was my reading, anyway.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#327

Post by int_19h »

q1w2 wrote: post #161
otrahuevada wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you count the oddly vague couple admissions extracted under torture from some random accountants as evidence of something, which you shouldn't because torture is not and shouldn't ever be considered a valid way to extract actionable information, being "fair" has nothing to do with what is being done here.

There is no evidence of torture whatsoever. This is a strange lie you keep posting with your link to 972mag, a biased Palestinian defense magazine. If you dig a little deeper at what the actual accountant's lawyer said - he said his client was seated in a chair with his hands tied behind his back during his initial arrest. Inventing a new name ("The shabah position") doesn't make it torture. Obviously the lawyer want…

> remember that both accountants provided detailed testimony in an open court room - not from a torture chamber

Using torture to force victims to testify against themselves or others in an open court room was routine in early USSR, for example, so I don't see how this changes anything.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#328

Post by int_19h »

whimsicalism wrote: post #238
BeetleB wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mandela was offered an early release if he renounced violence. He did not take that offer. I don't know about after his release, but for most of his life he believed in achieving his aims with violence, if need be. As for the violence the ANC perpetrated: It would definitely be considered terrorism today.

Super disingenuous in my view to have some purity test around renouncing violence against a white supremacist state. Is political violence not justified in that context? Were violent European revolutions against their monarchs all terroristic? Honestly surprised to see so many apartheid apologists in these replies.

In case of ANC, it definitely did things that fit the colloqual definition of terrorism - i.e. targeting civilians for political purposes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMkhonto_we_Sizwe#1980s:_Bombi...

That's not a justification of apartheid, though. One can argue that apartheid and terrorism are both morally despicable. Or one may argue that terrorism is sometimes justifiable.

And there are many other historical examples of the same. E.g. Soviet partisans did a lot of things that would also be considered terrorism during WW2 - targeting not Germans or their pet militias, but civilians accused of collaboratinism (which could be very vaguely defined - e.g. teachers who refused to close down schools on occupied territories). Again, you could debate whether it was justified or not, especially in the context of much broader use of terrorist tactics by Germans themselves, but that's a separate conversation.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#329

Post by [deleted] »

fzil wrote: post #284
yonixw wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> including the building in which the Associated Press had its office, a building Israel said it purposely targeted. Why did you omit the reason for targeting? "... because it was being used by the groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad and that terrorist attacks were directed from there" https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-has-received-mo...

That's the excuse used to bomb every hospital, school and press building by the Zionist regime. Hard to take anything that comes out of their mouths seriously.

[deleted]

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#330

Post by DSingularity »

joelbluminator wrote: post #309
DSingularity wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, except the hasbara efforts are real and well documented. Pretty disingenuous for you to try and present OP in such a way.

Every country in the world uses diplomacy and public relations to create a better strategic reality for itself, especially in times of conflict. Israel is no different than the U.S or Australia or the Palestinian Authority for that matter. It's pretty disingenuous of you to call it "Hasbara" when Israel does it as if it's some kind of Israeli phenomena.

Hasbara is what the Israelis call it… what would be a more sincere way for me to refer to it?
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