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Tech compensation in 2021

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Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#321

Post by Panzer04 »

adventured wrote: post #266
somewhereoutth wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US everything is pretty broken anyway - so go right ahead and change stuff, you might even fix something!! Whereas in Europe everything pretty much works as it should, so why rock the boat??

If things are working so well in Europe, why hasn't most of Europe seen any economic growth in two or three decades? That sure sounds like it's severely broken to me. The GDP of Germany and France are both below where they were in 1995 inflation adjusted (and that was true even before Covid hit). Britain's economy is where it was in 1998. Italy is far below where it was 30 years ago ($2.1t today; $1.32t in 1992, whic…

In fairness, China has twice the population of the entirety of Europe put together. It's easy to expand an economy from a small base, less so when you're already starting from a decent level.

Interesting stats nonetheless, I wasn't aware that Europe had stagnated so much. Your stats seem a little off; Most of the stagnation seems to have occurred from the GFC onwards, rather than before (using GDP per capita numbers)

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#322

Post by hellisothers »

“I’ve been a software engineer about 5 years. […] I’ve been with a startup about 3.5 years, have taken over Product Management, and I manage other engineers who work on customer-facing projects. … At Robin’s level of experience, they’d be mid-career or senior-level at most larger companies – so that would be something like an L4-L5 at Google, ICT3-ICT4 at Apple”

5 years of (mostly) engineering work at a startup and you’re saying this is on par with an L5 at Google or L4 at Apple? I find it hard to take anything else in the article seriously after that

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#323

Post by xyzzyz »

sweezyjeezy wrote: post #139
HenryKissinger wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all of that. European tech companies are smaller than US tech companies, have lower gross revenue per employee, make less profit per employee. Taxes are higher in Europe, which disincentivizes risk taking and ambitious individuals. Labor productivity is also lower in Europe. Finally, Europe still has a culture where software engineers, cloud architects/products/managers/etc. are viewed as code monkeys and the pe…

> Europe also suffers from a brain drain to the US (and Canada to a smaller proportion). Many of Europe's best and brightest software engineers have already emigrated to the US, leaving behind the less productive ones. You need to back this up with something better than anecdotal evidence - FWIW I've worked with plenty of world class American engineers who don't live in the US

Brain drain doesn’t mean that all top talent is gone, but rather that there is less of it than there would have been otherwise.

That this is happening between Europe and US is beyond clear: European engineers often emigrate to US, but American engineers emigrate much more rarely to Europe.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#324

Post by sharpy »

tshaddox wrote: post #313
sharpy wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another data point. My salary is just above $200k. After 6% contribution to retirement (max my employer will match), and $25k a year set aside for employee stock purchase program (max I can set aside - our ESPP is really good), I get just under $10k a month in direct deposit. My rent is $3k a month. My discretionary spending is also around $3k a month. So I save $4k a month (in cash). I also get around $350k in stock…

Out of curiosity, assuming the retirement you mention is a 401k, why don’t you elect to contribute the yearly maximum?

I just put the extra money into regular investment account. My investments account tend to perform better than the rather boring results that 401k accounts give me. Would be different story, if I was allowed to contribute to Roth IRA. I actually didn't know about the backdoor conversion until this year, but that loophole seems to be on its way out.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#325

Post by floxy »

For someone who is way out of this loop, what does a typical day look like for someone who make $300k at a "tech" job? $600k? Is it actually programming intensive? Like the guy who wrote the default calculator app on the iphone was making that kind of a salary? Or are you managing teams of programmers? Architecing? Is it something like 16 hour days are the norm?

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#326

Post by joshuamorton »

bgirard wrote: post #42
ggregoire wrote: post #21

> Chris can expect to make $300k at a non-FAANG company, but nearly double that if they’re willing to compromise on that “no-FAANG” stance Ok but aren't the expectations for a Staff+ way higher at FAANG than at non-FAANG? Or we assume Chris already got the offer from FAANG for a Staff+ role and so it's just a personal choice? Those articles and discussions about salary always assume everybody is able to work at FAANG…

The expectations might be higher, but you have access to a very high caliber infrastructure and mentors that increases your productivity. So onboarding might be a big leap during the transition period. But I think that explains more of the difference than a skill gap. Lots of great Staff+ SE decide to work at non-FAANG.

The point they're making is that someone who is "staff" at a random company might not get hired as "staff" at Google. Anecdotally, I know people who have been "principal" or similar at other places and come to Google as L4 or 5 with a raise and interesting work.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#327

Post by loeg »

hellisothers wrote: post #322

“I’ve been a software engineer about 5 years. […] I’ve been with a startup about 3.5 years, have taken over Product Management, and I manage other engineers who work on customer-facing projects. … At Robin’s level of experience, they’d be mid-career or senior-level at most larger companies – so that would be something like an L4-L5 at Google, ICT3-ICT4 at Apple” 5 years of (mostly) engineering work at a startup and y…

The article doesn't make the claim that you're refuting (i.e., this is a straw man). From your pull quote:

> something like an L4-L5 at Google, ICT3-ICT4 at Apple

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#328

Post by raihansaputra »

loeg wrote: post #150
cinntaile wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only for public servants.

In Norway, it's all public (I think).

Norway used to have all the tax return information public through the internet. It's still available publicly to Norwegian taxpayers through a login, but now the person you're looking up knows who viewed their details.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#329

Post by lostmsu »

loeg wrote: post #284
lostmsu wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last year I was offered almost 500k TC from Facebook for E5 in Seattle. Google did not bother to match at the same level. I guess Google is not drowning in money anymore (in comparison).

Anecdotally, last year I was offered 350k (annual) TC from Facebook for E5 in Seattle.

Did you have any competing offers?

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#330

Post by Jensson »

floxy wrote: post #325

For someone who is way out of this loop, what does a typical day look like for someone who make $300k at a "tech" job? $600k? Is it actually programming intensive? Like the guy who wrote the default calculator app on the iphone was making that kind of a salary? Or are you managing teams of programmers? Architecing? Is it something like 16 hour days are the norm?

I worked at Google. $300k is a few years out of college if you do ok and get promoted once. You write code and maybe onboard a junior now and then. 8 hour workdays, but nobody checks so you can work less if you want. So it is just a regular coding job.
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