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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

fda.gov

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#321

Post by thehappypm »

orangegreen wrote: post #308
thepasswordis wrote: post #200

People don’t want to take the vaccine because others are trying to force them to. They would say “it’s not FDA approved!” not as the core of their hesitancy, but because they were trying to be appeal to pro-vax peoples decision making framework. I don’t think we should be able to require them to. To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities wo…

It's not really about you. It's about preventing other, more vulnerable people from getting sick. Living in a society means giving up some of your freedoms in exchange for security, and getting vaccinated as a way to help other people should be part of that exchange.

I don't agree with this, in general. We shouldn't give up our freedoms. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." (Benjamin Franklin) We should be motivated by a desire to help one another, and resist when freedoms are removed. That being said, if businesses want to exercise their freedoms to make life more difficult for the unvaccinated, so be it.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#322

Post by thehappypm »

thepasswordis wrote: post #289
pornel wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the deal: you don't have to take the vaccine, but promise to stay away from people, and not burden hospitals when you get covid. It's not your personal choice when it can harm other people (e.g. immunocompromised people who can't get the vaccine themselves, other people who need ICU beds).

I will happily stay away from hospitals if they stop regulating drugs, and medical treatments. Also: I did take the vaccine.

Do you honestly think a world with unregulated drugs and medicine is a better one?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#323

Post by c7DJTLrn »

thehappypm wrote: post #298
c7DJTLrn wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has Fox News got to do with anything? Do you see this as a political issue? What about people with immune dysfunction? Are you going to dismiss them as Fox News viewers too because aren't having the vaccine?

Yes, it's highly politicized. Marjorie Taylor-Greene, a congresswoman from Georgia, is a huge rising conservative star in the style of Trump. She's downright anti-vaccine. "These vaccines are failing and do not reduce the spread of the virus and neither do masks".

Well, that statement of hers is blatantly stupid, I think we can agree on that.

But please don't lump people like me concerned about infringement on rights and bodily autonomy with people who deny facts and cannot understand what a mitigation measure is.

And more importantly, please don't make vaccination a political issue. Because you will be dividing everyone over this much more dramatically.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#324

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

thepasswordis wrote: post #200

People don’t want to take the vaccine because others are trying to force them to. They would say “it’s not FDA approved!” not as the core of their hesitancy, but because they were trying to be appeal to pro-vax peoples decision making framework. I don’t think we should be able to require them to. To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities wo…

> imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities would have burned over it.

I don't like "Imagine x doing y" arguments because it makes us insert our own biases on a hypothetical scenario that isn't the current reality.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#325

Post by supportlocal4h »

ceejayoz wrote: post #173
supportlocal4h wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like being inundated by smoke. My town is currently experiencing intermittent days of smokiness from fires burning 100s of miles away. People are dying in those fires. Homes are being destroyed. But the local fire department isn't doing anything about it. Nobody around here is installing sprinklers as a precaution. They act like there is no fire at all. Covid is a serious thing. But "engulfed by flames" is the e…

> Why don't we lockdown our highways when there are 600,000 deaths from auto accidents? We mandate seat belts, air bags, guard rails, road construction standards, backup cameras, crumple zones, and quite a few other elements involved in road safety. Per-mile road deaths have been on a precipitous decline for decades due to ongoing increases in safety mandates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate…

So 35000 deaths per year is ok? 100000? 250000? 1.5 million (diabetes)?

500000 hospitalizations (influenza)?

What deserves such incredible non-stop daily attention? Answer: whatever makes the most money.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#326

Post by cies »

ceejayoz wrote: post #173
supportlocal4h wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like being inundated by smoke. My town is currently experiencing intermittent days of smokiness from fires burning 100s of miles away. People are dying in those fires. Homes are being destroyed. But the local fire department isn't doing anything about it. Nobody around here is installing sprinklers as a precaution. They act like there is no fire at all. Covid is a serious thing. But "engulfed by flames" is the e…

> Why don't we lockdown our highways when there are 600,000 deaths from auto accidents? We mandate seat belts, air bags, guard rails, road construction standards, backup cameras, crumple zones, and quite a few other elements involved in road safety. Per-mile road deaths have been on a precipitous decline for decades due to ongoing increases in safety mandates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate…

Those are band-aids. A car-lockdown would save lots of lives.

GPs point is: compared to other drama, covid's hype seems out of proportion. I agree.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#327

Post by dolni »

oblio wrote: post #274
dolni wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Getting really drunk and driving home is also a decision about your body. So is smoking inside restaurants. Smelly analogy is smelly. You're talking about the difference between very specific behaviors being prohibited versus blacklisting half of the population from participating in society with vaccine mandates (many of whom are black, by the way). It's not even close to a valid comparison. I get the sense that th…

> Why? Apparently my government isn't capable of providing useful guidance to keep me safe. We keep hearing about masks, but the mandate got dropped and there was never any talk about mandating the clearly superior KN95 or N95 masks. > Anti-vaxxers have been consistent from the beginning that they're not getting vaccinated. You know whose position keeps changing? FDA & CDC. Whether it's how effective the vaccine is,…

Science does adapt. And as often repeated, we know little to nothing about COVID.

Lifting the mask mandate was a political move, and it was a poor one. Not pushing KN95/N95 when it was basically guaranteed to be increased protection was a poor move. Taking us out of lockdown, and failing to reinstate the lockdown, was a political move. Also a poor choice.

You're over here talking about science. Half of these decisions are being made based on politics. Wouldn't surprise me if the vaccine approval were also.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#329

Post by enumjorge »

defaultprimate wrote: post #222
enumjorge wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again with this argument. This particular decision with their bodies is harming others. Getting really drunk and driving home is also a decision about your body. So is smoking inside restaurants. Those have been illegal for a while. For those of us who got the vaccine, we’re still having to take precautions because of the delta variant spikes, largely from people who didn’t get a vaccine. Where is our choice?

There is a great chasm between direct action resulting in tragedy and inaction for the preservation of autonomy having an infinitesimally small probability of directly resulting in tragedy. Comparing choosing to drive drunk with not choosing to take a particular action that has an infinitesimally small probability of directly causing tragedy are not remotely comparable.

We’re talking about health guidelines at the state and national level here. What matters is the big picture not a single data point. No one cares if Joe has the vaccine, we care that X% percentage of the total population has been infected or that Y% percentage of people are vaccinated.

We’re in a tech forum do I really need to explain this? The probability of an individual hard drive failing is small. If you’re building a gaming rig, you don’t need to worry about it, if you’re building a data center that small probability becomes a problem.

How can you possibly believe those choices aren’t having an effect when we are living the consequences of those actions? The number of cases are going up, younger people are dying, hospitals are filling to capacity.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#330

Post by thepasswordis »

thehappypm wrote: post #322
thepasswordis wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will happily stay away from hospitals if they stop regulating drugs, and medical treatments. Also: I did take the vaccine.

Do you honestly think a world with unregulated drugs and medicine is a better one?

No.
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