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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#321

Post by emodendroket »

gricardo99 wrote: post #306
emodendroket wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Americans actually end up with real tax liability from a foreign country? Probably need to answer that before we determine whether it's "worth it" because my understanding is most people don't.

At least from those expats posting here, the issue isn’t the actual real tax liability, but the burden of having to show the IRS every year that you don’t think you have a tax liability.

That’s a hassle but it seems hyperbolic to call it absurdly cruel and the other things people here are saying.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#322

Post by c_o_n_v_e_x »

throwaway5372 wrote: post #287
c_o_n_v_e_x wrote: post #119

Overseas American here. The whole paying tax and getting nothing out of it really sucks. I’ve been out over 10 years, here are some of my good and bad experiences. Good: 1. When I first got here, super cheap drinks put on by the marines at the US embassy. People would get wasted and it was an obvious security threat so those parties don’t happen anymore. Bad: 1. No access to covid vaccine despite paying taxes and not…

> 1. No access to covid vaccine Countries were not vaccinating permanent residents? I had no problem getting a vaccine as a foreigner in Turkey. I thought all countries would be like that.

I got the vax eventually. Given that I was a foreigner and under 40, I was at the back of the line to get my shots. My family back stateside were fully vaxxed a good 4 to 5 months ahead of me.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#323

Post by arwhatever »

trutannus wrote: post #117
tazjin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else I believe Eritrea does this, too. They don't have as much political power as the US though, so they resort to torturing your remaining family members in the country to get you to comply.

> They don't have as much political power They're basically the North Korea of Africa. This is a massive understatement.

INTERNATIONAL political power

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#324

Post by FredPret »

Retric wrote: post #137
circular_logic wrote: post #63

Interesting facts about renouncing American citizenship: - There is renunciation fee that has to be paid and currently stands at $2,350 (the highest in the world).[1] - A final tax return will sill need to be filed. [1] - An Expatriation tax is payable if [..] Your net worth is $2 million or more on the date of your expatriation. you will be treated as having disposed of your assets the day before your expatriation a…

That honestly seems quite reasonable. Citizenship comes with all sorts of obligations like getting drafted and serving on juries, taxes are simply the most obvious. On the up side you can apparently still qualify for Social Security benefits.

Citizens are not assets of the state

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#325

Post by BelenusMordred »

mythz wrote: post #162
EE84M3i wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I seem to recall hearing Australians also have complicated rules about being an "Australian resident for tax purposes" that is not the same as an Australian resident for other purposes, especially when you don't have Permanent Residence/Green Card and are on a time-limited visa (even if it's years long). So they don't technically fall into the "America and Eritrea" bad list, but still tax many Australians abroad…

This is untrue, if you're a citizen of Australia who is a non-resident you don't have to report or pay taxes on world wide income made outside of Australia.

The laws recently changed last month. If you spend more than 45 days in the country or tick two of the following dot points you are now considered a tax resident and need to pay income tax:

* the right to reside permanently in Australia

* Australian accommodation

* Australian family

* Australian economic interests.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=a9c5000f-bde6...

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#326

Post by simonh »

emodendroket wrote: post #319
simonh wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there are a handful right here on this comment section. I'm a Brit and have known maybe half a dozen US citizens reasonably well here in London over the years, at least two of which renounced US citizenship for tax reasons while I knew them. It's definitely a thing.

According to another post you do not owe tax on income below $108k so that’s probably not going to affect most filers, though I’m sure an anomalously high number of HN users are earning six-figure salaries.

Oh well, that's alright then. As long as it's only successful people getting screwed I suppose we're good.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#327

Post by cortesoft »

academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

On the other hand, is it right to be able to leave the country indefinitely, not contribute to the country at all, but still expect to have all the benefits of citizenship forever?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#328

Post by mytailorisrich »

jkepler wrote: post #107
mytailorisrich wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how could the US government stop this from happening? By taxing based on residency, not citizenship, like pretty much all other countries on Earth. People have the right to lower their tax liability within the law, they have the right to move, and they have the right to renounce citizenship (if they have another one). We're not going to prevent any of that from happening. The only thing the US can do is to remove t…

Do you have a citation where US (federal) law requires one to have a foreign citizenship in order to renounce US citizenship? Or, would it be possible to renounce US citizenship without foreign citizenship, perhaps while maintaining citizenship in one's state of origin in one of the seven states—Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming—which levy no state income tax, or in one of the two…

Ah, well according to Google the US are one of the few countries that does not require another citizenship in order to let you renounce citizenship.

So, indeed you could renounce US citizenship without having any other one... But that would make you stateless, without passport, etc. which does not sound like a good idea.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#329

Post by someguydave »

hnthrwy1111 wrote: post #185

I'm an "accidental American" who has navigated this issue and it's incredibly easy. Just don't file. Every professional that writes blogs about this has a professional duty to give legal advice but the practical advice is just don't file. Look into what exactly triggers data to be sent to the IRS under your tax treaty and the policies of your financial institutions. Being "accidental" is the key here. If you tell you…

I would not plan on transiting the US for life if I were you though
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