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Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#321

Post by yupper32 »

throwawayboise wrote: post #253
lashloch wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something amusing to me about the idea of an industry that "used to be" sustainable. Guess it wasn't sustainable after all.

McDonald's and similar jobs used to be an entry level job for teens and college students. When I was 16 I was happy to work there for minimum wage ($3.35/hr at the time). Nobody other than the mangers did it to support a family. It was never understood to be that kind of job. I don't know how we got to the point where a no-skills-required job that anyone with a pulse can learn to do in a few hours suddenly became req…

> McDonald's and similar jobs used to be an entry level job for teens and college students. When I was 16 I was happy to work there for minimum wage

And who worked the day shift?

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#322

Post by xanaxagoras »

lrdswrk00 wrote: post #166

Covid has made me question eating out at all. It’s trivial to cook something that’s better tasting and healthier than fast food, most cafes. With all the practice in the last year, it’s not hard to come close to my favorite upscale restaurants for 1/4 of the price. I don’t need to find a recipe, I can “just cook” now. Eating out seems like an antiquated division of labor given how streamlined procurement (grocery del…

Agreed. Restaurant food is generally speaking unhealthy and overpriced. Low quality ingredients are doused in fat and salt to make them palatable and I'm expected to pay an exorbitant fee for someone to remember what I asked for and carry it across the room. It's cheaper and easier to eat real, whole foods at home. There are too many restaurants and we've come to rely on them for our daily sustenance. A healthy relationship to restaurants would make it a once or twice a month kind of proposition, yet it's not uncommon for people to use restaurants as their primary source of nutrition (don't even get me started on F-ing delivery).

The more of them that shut down after COVID and don't come back, the better.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#323

Post by bluGill »

namdnay wrote: post #218
danaris wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean...to what extent does this correlate with the nationwide stagnation of real wages? If your average American working a full-time job can't afford to eat out at high enough prices to keep restaurants afloat while paying decent wages, that sounds like a systemic problem—and we already know that one of those exists here.

I guess it depends how often you expect to eat out. If it’s once a month, I think most can afford more expensive restaurants

Once you learn to cook you won't eat at anything less than the most expensive. It is really hard to enjoy a meal when you are thinking "I could have done this better myself at less cost". Chains and fast food just don't provide the quality I demand for the most part, and even the independents are hit and miss.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#324

Post by corpdrone2021 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #49
boulos wrote: post #5

If you’re interested in the topic, I recommend the MIT living wage research [1]. They’ve got probably the most useful calculator, letting you compare multiple scenarios. [1] https://livingwage.mit.edu/

This is a great resource. I'd nitpick that the childcare expense is IMO a terrible evolution of society. People used to take care of eachother's kids while they were at work (eg, work less hours or compressed days and trade day care days with a friend. ). It's far better for children to have stable adult support (ie same small set of people stably over time) than a revolving door of new employees, whomever is working…

Most of the historical community building was done at faith communities, and by stay-at home parents in the past. As a society we fell hook line and sinker for "The two income trap," and are unwilling to contemplate the horrible idea of allowing families to collect the childcare subsidy to pay the parent providing childcare is upsetting to enough different groups to be a non-starter.

Right wingers are upset because "it's socialism" and folks on the left who I've discussed the idea with have repeatedly expressed fear that it will undermine feminism.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#325

Post by arcturus17 »

red_trumpet wrote: post #267
arcturus17 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, how is variable pricing a source of profit for the restaurateur? Their profit is calculated on a fixed price. Also from what I’ve observed in the US, everyone is morally obligated to pay a tip… Rich people may go above and beyond the average (citation needed) but having tips arguably does not raise demand from more modest people, since they are still expected to pay base price + tip. There is no real price segmen…

> Eh, how is variable pricing a source of profit for the restaurateur? Their profit is calculated on a fixed price. More people dining means more profit probably. > (citation needed) Yes, that may indeed be a problem.

> More people dining means more profit probably.

I gave a precise argument to why I think tips do not increase demand for the service - most people in the US, regardless of wealth, pay at least the minimum tip.

GP's argument that there is a substantial price segmentation would only hold if poorer people did not pay the tip.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#326

Post by ac29 »

conductr wrote: post #82
yepthatsreality wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but this goes beyond restaurants in my opinion. Look at these states that had mass migration of people during the pandemic. You will find the (big) sky-rocketing cost of living where those who are moving in on a whim are also not seeking jobs in the state. However all these businesses need employees to handle the new increase in customers. The employers aren’t raising their wages either, which is also not attrac…

> The employers aren’t raising their wages either They are. It takes time but they are. I work in a business that is having a hard time hiring entry level healthcare workers because Walmart and Amazon warehoueses is now paying $15-20/hr when it was only $12 pre-covid. Walmart and Amazon would only raise wages if they truly had a labor supply issue, which they do, we all do.

I'm curious where in the US are healthcare workers getting less than $15/hr and what kind of work it is. Even the sort of jobs that require no certification, no degree, and no experience seem to pay quite a bit more than that.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#327

Post by [deleted] »

kop316 wrote: post #235
yepthatsreality wrote: post #4

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

That may be the case for some....but that is not the case for all. For one ancedote, my father in-law runs a restaurant with my aunt in-law (his sister). They are the only workers, and split the profits evenly. They are in the midwest (low taxes), and own the restaurant's property/building. They were able to completely shut down during COVID and restart back up, and have survived several economic downturns. They are…

[deleted]

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#328

Post by jclulow »

stevejb wrote: post #319
yepthatsreality wrote: post #4

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

Guilt trip? I have never felt this ever. I pay a tip proportional to the service. 10% bad, 15% average, 20-25% for very good. As an American living in Australia, I really do miss tipping. I think that on average the restaurant service here is a lot lower. At most restaurants at the medium level (e.g. $25 hamburgers) you pay in advance, and then a waiter will bring the food to you when its ready. Do you need more wate…

As an Australian living in America, the expectation that there will be a person to refill your water cup is pretty uncomfortable. The need to tip is a ridiculous abdication of the responsibility for labour laws to ensure staff a living wage. If you don't like the service at a restaurant, don't go! There are other restaurants that will compete for your custom. If no restaurant is sufficiently servile for your tastes, then your expectations are likely out of step with local culture and how it treats people.

Individual service persons should not be held hostage to your interpretation of their service for their wage. If they're routinely underperforming they'll be sacked.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#329

Post by sumtechguy »

posguy wrote: post #274
jokoon wrote: post #263

I live in france, and I recently went to some presentation by some "restauration job industry" school director, who tried to encourage us to apply. I was open to other jobs and I discovered that it was mostly about working in a restaurant after arriving at the presentation. It's summer, france is a destination for tourism and there is a big shortage of workers. Post covid, people want to go out and have a good time.…

Restaurants by and large are not high revenue businesses. Most small grocers generate more revenue in 1 to 2 months than a restaurant will generate in a year. It seems like restaurant owners in the US turn over often, varying from every few months to 3 years on the outside. Seems like a really stressful industry that can have good margins, but maintaining profitability is hard and consumers are quite fickle.

Also look at how many chain restaurants are structured in their financing and it is not great. Usually some portion (40% or more) of the net goes to the parent corp. Then out of that you pay the lease on the building, any required decorations, and buy from locked in vendors. Both all owned by the parent corp or some sister corp. Then out of what is left you pay your employees, taxes (on the net), and yourself. You are looking at maybe 10-15% of the net to do that with too.

People can say 'oh just make the wages better'. But that may literally be the difference between there being a restaurant and nothing at all.

Many gas stations run the with the same model. The twist is the gas companies own the land, and the pumps, and set the price. You just run the business.

Basically most of these places someone 'bought a job'.

Think I heard somewhere that places like McDonalds is one of the largest land owners in the world. Yet most of their stores are not 'corporate'.

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