Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

telex.hu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 542 posts

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#321

Post by hutzlibu »

zajio1am wrote: post #309
hutzlibu wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" The difference is that conservative nationalism can’t get that type of foothold in Western Europe and the mistake was to include countries in the EU that even had a risk of having a nationalist majority" Does spain is included in your non-nationalistic western europe? A state where old fascist are still in charge in justice, police and army? Who cheeringly cracked down on catalonia who dared to organize a referendu…

> Who cheeringly cracked down on catalonia who dared to organize a referendum on independence? Which would likely be done by every country that respects rule of law and equal rights of its citizens.

I supose by rule of law, you don't mean:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination

Aside from that, the UK showed with scotland, how it can be done dealing with political issues, without involving the police. Because that is just in tradition of the fascist way.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#322

Post by hutzlibu »

alkonaut wrote: post #320
hutzlibu wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" The difference is that conservative nationalism can’t get that type of foothold in Western Europe and the mistake was to include countries in the EU that even had a risk of having a nationalist majority" Does spain is included in your non-nationalistic western europe? A state where old fascist are still in charge in justice, police and army? Who cheeringly cracked down on catalonia who dared to organize a referendu…

> Who cheeringly cracked down on catalonia who dared to organize a referendum on independenc Parts of states do not simply arrange independence referendums without approval from the central government. This would be “cracked down” in every single country on earth. It may well be that Catalonia deserve independence but it’s not exactly surprising or authoritarian of a central government to stop such attempts. Scotland…

But how could they have proceed legaly, when the central government made it clear, they never respect their right of self determination?

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#323

Post by peteretep »

lloydjones wrote: post #217
roenxi wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there is a part of the population that is radicalized and hate rhetoric is used that will destabilize any society. I'm going to point at this as an example of a very traditional, very political example unproductive thinking. One of the lessons people refuse to see in politics is that the people who vote for things they don't like might, potentially, be upset about something. There is a lack of reflection on how…

I'm not sure I agree. In the UK, the lower middle class are (to generalise) materially well-off; they own their own homes, they have a couple of cars, they have large televisions, one partner does not have to work, etc. And through pure boredom/decadence, they were radicalised through years of negative messaging from the populist press into 'caring' about things like Brexit, immigration, welfare claimants, etc. These…

> the lower middle class are (to generalise) materially well-off ... they have large televisions ... through pure boredom/decadence they were radicalised ... about things they largely don't fully grasp

8/10 top parody comment. You could have strengthened it by suggesting they turn to brioche if they don't have enough bread to eat though.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#324

Post by ipatec »

tobltobs wrote: post #317
ipatec wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. Check the largest exporters... yea... mainly German companies. That surplus ain't staying in Hungary

what are you trying to say? Hungary has a trade surplus against Germany.

where are the profits going? if a German company opens a factory in Hungary where it produces let's sau Automotive parts of course Hungary develops a trade surplus. they sell automotive parts to Germany. however the profits of the German HU subsidiary will all go back to Germany. that trade surplus means nothing.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#325

Post by pfdietz »

roenxi wrote: post #234
lloydjones wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree. In the UK, the lower middle class are (to generalise) materially well-off; they own their own homes, they have a couple of cars, they have large televisions, one partner does not have to work, etc. And through pure boredom/decadence, they were radicalised through years of negative messaging from the populist press into 'caring' about things like Brexit, immigration, welfare claimants, etc. These…

Hasn't the UK's energy availability basically collapsed? I keep an eye on the basic stats [0] and it looked like the situation was pretty grim leading up to Brexit. Someone is really hurting. Either production is collapsing and people are losing good jobs, or it is directly going to result in household pain. I suppose it would surprise me if 20% of a country's electricity can disappear, almost half its primary energy…

The numbers look like a combination of increased import of electricity and move away from lower efficiency thermal cycles for electricity production (primary energy use is the thermal energy before going through the heat engine; replacement of coal and nuclear with gas and wind would reduce primary energy use even if electricity production were unchanged.)

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#326

Post by joshuahughes »

lloydjones wrote: post #217
roenxi wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there is a part of the population that is radicalized and hate rhetoric is used that will destabilize any society. I'm going to point at this as an example of a very traditional, very political example unproductive thinking. One of the lessons people refuse to see in politics is that the people who vote for things they don't like might, potentially, be upset about something. There is a lack of reflection on how…

I'm not sure I agree. In the UK, the lower middle class are (to generalise) materially well-off; they own their own homes, they have a couple of cars, they have large televisions, one partner does not have to work, etc. And through pure boredom/decadence, they were radicalised through years of negative messaging from the populist press into 'caring' about things like Brexit, immigration, welfare claimants, etc. These…

"In the UK, the lower middle class are (to generalise) materially well-off; they own their own homes, they have a couple of cars, they have large televisions, one partner does not have to work, etc."

I'm glad you added "(to generalise)" in there, because I'd class myself as 'lower middle' and most of my family/friends in a similar bracket absolutely cannot function without both partners working, and a majority are renting rather than buying their home. I'd argue that what you've described is only true of those OLDER lower middle class folks (like my parents) who struck it lucky before the housing market lost its mind.

The only reason I personally fit into your description (well, I only have one car) is that I was lucky to find my way into the software industry which pays a heck of a lot better than most...

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#327

Post by peteretep »

pmontra wrote: post #100
hyper_dynamics wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should be expelled, but that's not possible. So the EU is indeed kinda helpless against member states gone rouge

I don't recommended this scenario but: the other states could join a new union and leave Hungary and possibly other states outside (the usual split into a good company and a bad one.) Lots of legal disputes but in international law the strongest party always makes the law and shrugs problems away. BTW, is it rouge (as in French for red) or rogue?

Or they could just develop decent sanctions and enforce them. Hungary is a massive net recipient of EU funds, which seems a great starting lever, plus throw just the smallest amount of friction into their Schengen status, and you've got something pretty potent there.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#328

Post by peteretep »

rini17 wrote: post #62
poisonborz wrote: post #28

If there is one single lasting international effect of Orbán and his party, it's how he demonstrated how EU is completely helpless against rouge states (as well). The delicate political balance of its parliamental politics make it impossible to react to any complex, even if lethal threats. The EU funds and fuels a Belorussian-style regime in its own heartland for a decade now, and all they can do are angry notices an…

"Hungary has the full support of Poland and the V4" Oversimplified view. There was common interest of V4 against accepting refugees, but Czech & Slovak rep. generally support EU's side in judicial and media independence issues. Elsewhere, German automakers have vast investments in the eastern EU and they have been holding Merkel back against Orban, together with conservative faction of CDU.

> German automakers ... have been holding Merkel back against Orban

Between this, Nord Stream 2, etc, Germany's commercial elite are having more and more to answer for...

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#329

Post by cabalamat »

poisonborz wrote: post #28

If there is one single lasting international effect of Orbán and his party, it's how he demonstrated how EU is completely helpless against rouge states (as well). The delicate political balance of its parliamental politics make it impossible to react to any complex, even if lethal threats. The EU funds and fuels a Belorussian-style regime in its own heartland for a decade now, and all they can do are angry notices an…

> rouge states

States that wear lots of lipstick? It's a word often mis-spelt.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#330

Post by [deleted] »

poisonborz wrote: post #28

If there is one single lasting international effect of Orbán and his party, it's how he demonstrated how EU is completely helpless against rouge states (as well). The delicate political balance of its parliamental politics make it impossible to react to any complex, even if lethal threats. The EU funds and fuels a Belorussian-style regime in its own heartland for a decade now, and all they can do are angry notices an…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN