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Why Russians do not smile (2002)

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Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#321

Post by brabel »

ngcc_hk wrote: post #233
c-smile wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian here (to be precise Russian Canadian of Ukrainian descent :-) There is a saying in Russian: if a stranger, on your question "how are you?" (ru: как дела?), starts explaining in details what is happening with him/her - please know, you've met complete idiot. So I am classifying that 'how are you?' as never ending test of my life position :)

A bit confused. My mental model is - Ukraine is part of Soviet Union - currently the Russian speaking Ukraine part is well ... other than that I do not associate Ukrainian as Russian. They are separately in identity ?

Ukraine has a lot of Russian speakers, I would think most of the population can actually speak Russian, or a mix of Ukrainian and Russian (given the similarity between the languages)... on TV, it's common for people to switch languages mid-conversation, for example...

With that said: Ukraine is a big country with a very strong culture that differs from Russian culture in (for us, foreigners) subtle ways. Near the border with Russia, however, Russian culture is stronger, hence some regions even associating themselves more strongly with Russia than with Ukraine (Krimea was one of those regions, by the way, which may explain to people who are unaware of this situation why there was no popular revolt - quite the contrary - against the Russian occupation).

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#322

Post by scrollaway »

geocrasher wrote: post #257
sunshineforever wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a difficult life and I'm growing very tired of this question. I've even had to ask some of my neighbors not to greet me that way.

Indeed. People do not realize how destructive it is. The other one that really irks me is "let me know if you need anything!" 1) You are putting it on me to tell you that I need something, right in the middle of my need. 2) If you're my real friend you don't need to say that, I already know I can call you 24/7/365 3) Your willingness to help is nulled by your lack of initiative. The best thing anyone ever did was cal…

> Your willingness to help is nulled by your lack of initiative.

I understand your point and i know it's a difficult question to deal with sometimes, especially during depression.

But remember that you're not those people's top priority. That sentence means you are allowed to ask them for stuff, but it doesn't mean they're going to drop everything and take you into their care right now without you taking a few steps on your own. They consider that you have enough of your own agency.

Your willingness to be helped is nulled by that same lack of initiative on your part.

A trick is to find something easy to ask for, as a go-to response to that. For example, the next time someone says that to you, you could answer:

"Actually, life has been tough lately, a beer would be nice".

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#323

Post by ido »

jwilber wrote: post #281
geocrasher wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. People do not realize how destructive it is. The other one that really irks me is "let me know if you need anything!" 1) You are putting it on me to tell you that I need something, right in the middle of my need. 2) If you're my real friend you don't need to say that, I already know I can call you 24/7/365 3) Your willingness to help is nulled by your lack of initiative. The best thing anyone ever did was cal…

I hope this doesn’t come off belittling but my only reaction to reading this is that some people can find a reason to get upset over anything.

I independently had the same thoughts as geocrasher during similar experiences (and haven't told my friends the question annoys me), and I would say your reaction is uncharitable. Just because you can't relate doesn't mean "some people can find a reason to get upset over anything".

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#324

Post by ido »

scrollaway wrote: post #322
geocrasher wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. People do not realize how destructive it is. The other one that really irks me is "let me know if you need anything!" 1) You are putting it on me to tell you that I need something, right in the middle of my need. 2) If you're my real friend you don't need to say that, I already know I can call you 24/7/365 3) Your willingness to help is nulled by your lack of initiative. The best thing anyone ever did was cal…

> Your willingness to help is nulled by your lack of initiative. I understand your point and i know it's a difficult question to deal with sometimes, especially during depression. But remember that you're not those people's top priority. That sentence means you are allowed to ask them for stuff, but it doesn't mean they're going to drop everything and take you into their care right now without you taking a few steps…

The problem is that a lot of the time it feels like meaningless platitudes. Like they feel they have to say something out of politeness but don't actually want (or able) to help you.

What would have been better? To just say "I'm sorry you're having a hard time". If you don't mean something, don't say it.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#325

Post by Gene_Parmesan »

Merem wrote: post #309
kmarc wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a young Hungarian, I used to confuse the hell out of my American colleagues when I went to a "lengthy" (more than 10sec) explanation answering to "how are you?"s. It took my a while to realize why that was. Now it just entertains me how oblivious I was. OTOH I wouldn't call these "fake"; It's common, it's certainly different than how I socialized, possibly it's greatly misunderstood by many. Along the same train o…

"After all, how could I genuinely wish a random German stranger a "Guten Morgen"..." By being a nice person, just like how one would hold open a door for someone else? Though, that aside, when you say "Guten Morgen", you aren't wishing anything. It's just being polite while at the same time, you are saying something about yourself. For example, you could simply say "Morgen" which would mean you are in a hurry, or, de…

This is exactly how "How are you?" is meant in American culture. It's not fake; greetings are culturally determined and especially the most common greeting phrases in any culture should not be treated literally but instead as part of a ritual exchange.

"How are you?"

"I'm well, and you?"

"Great, thanks."

It's just a ritualistic exchange.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#326

Post by raverbashing »

brabel wrote: post #317
matheusmoreira wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once met a russian person online who had learned portuguese, my native language. I was extremely impressed. To this day I've never seen anyone else learn portuguese as a second language.

On my travels, I have met several people who, after living in Brazil for only a few months, learned to speak Portuguese fluently. This always impressed me hugely, because English speakers normally have a really hard time learning a language that has "gendered" nouns and inflected articles/adjectives/pronouns, for example... but many of them seem to do just fine! But I met enough of them to now think Portuguese must b…

Being surrounded by talkative people helps a lot, and then you get to learn the actual constructs, not the theoretical grammar. Not being facetious, I think that's the main thing behind "it's harder to lear a new language as an adult". I think it's less due to ability and more to do with the contexts and opportunities to practice.

(Though yes, by how they learn you notice what they get easily and what confuses them)

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#327

Post by beebeepka »

jwilber wrote: post #281
geocrasher wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. People do not realize how destructive it is. The other one that really irks me is "let me know if you need anything!" 1) You are putting it on me to tell you that I need something, right in the middle of my need. 2) If you're my real friend you don't need to say that, I already know I can call you 24/7/365 3) Your willingness to help is nulled by your lack of initiative. The best thing anyone ever did was cal…

I hope this doesn’t come off belittling but my only reaction to reading this is that some people can find a reason to get upset over anything.

I don't believe you. How are you is almost never an honest question and you know it

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#328

Post by shashurup »

dougmwne wrote: post #13

I wonder if any Russians can weigh in if this still feels accurate. I'm familiar with Polish Culture, which is less fun, frivolous, and happy than American culture, but a smile is certainly not an attack, just reserved for genuine occasions. Service people are in no way expected to smile unless there is some honest reason to.

I think it has changed a bit since then. There was not a lot to smile about in Russia in 2002. Not that now we smile at each other every time, but we do this more often and even if we don't faces are a lot less grumpy :)

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#329

Post by aspaviento »

jwilber wrote: post #281
geocrasher wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. People do not realize how destructive it is. The other one that really irks me is "let me know if you need anything!" 1) You are putting it on me to tell you that I need something, right in the middle of my need. 2) If you're my real friend you don't need to say that, I already know I can call you 24/7/365 3) Your willingness to help is nulled by your lack of initiative. The best thing anyone ever did was cal…

I hope this doesn’t come off belittling but my only reaction to reading this is that some people can find a reason to get upset over anything.

Exactly my thoughts. One thing is to expect some understanding from people (and specially friends) but another thing is to expect them to be mind readers. People have their own lives and if you don't express your needs, unless they are very obvious, you shouldn't blame them for not taking them into consideration.

@geocrasher seems to not realize that the people around he/she could be taking a cautious position to avoid getting into his/her business without it being requested.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#330

Post by binbag »

Observation from a Scottish perspective: We are somewhere in between the two modes. We smile more than Russians (not difficult) and less than Americans (also not difficult), and we notice both quite clearly. I would say we used to be more like the Russians (hence why Scottish people used to often be considered "dour" or depressed), but are now being Americanised through media consumption (like many countries). That is noticeable in that younger generations smile more than older ones.
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