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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#321

Post by SigmundA »

jvanderbot wrote: post #320
SigmundA wrote: post #117

This is at 66.9 km/h (40 mph) in order to greatly increase its range due to lower drag compared to normal highway speeds. As a comparison a Tesla Model 3 got 975km (606 miles) at 40 km/h (25 mph) [1]. I can't seem to find any range tests at a similar speed as the Nexo. I found an EPA dyno test for the Model 3 at 77 km/h (48mph) for 708 km (440 miles). The Nexo and Model 3 have similar dimension and weight and price,…

The one thing H has going is quicker fills at the pump, right? Being low on joules is a pain when you're going to work in the morning, but it's a royal pain if you have to wait a half hour to charge.

Yep if you have a hydrogen pump nearby it will probably fill faster than a charger. Not sure if they need attendants like a propane fill.

If you have a plug at home though thats much more convient at least to me when going to work.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#322

Post by canadianfella »

bildung wrote: post #39
metalliqaz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you're talking about distribution infrastructure, which is true but in my mind the biggest issue is efficiency. Storing and using H2 isn't very efficient, and current production techniques for H2 emit as much or more carbon as Diesel.

All true, though to be fair CO2 savings with electric cars also only range, depending on car and country (i.e. local infrastructure and means of electricity production), from 0% to 35% of lifetime CO2 emissions of an equivalent ICE car). https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/EV-life...

Only?

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#323

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

emptyfile wrote: post #277
SigmundA wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lithium batteries still seem to have a way to go in energy density currently at around 250-300 wh/kg and going up year over year with a theoretical maximum (Sulfur cathode) of above 2500 wh/kg. At around 2000 wh/kg you are equivalent to diesel drivetrain energy density both size and weight based on my rough math. Expensive large hydrogen tanks in a trailer with high pressure lines to tractor seems like it would cause…

I have no clue about batteries or hydrogen tanks. But I'm always amused to think that posters on HN give more credence to their back-of-the-napkin calculations over opinions of, say, folks at Toshiba, Volvo or Daimler.

Math, physics, and chemistry, don't discriminate.

The Emperor and the downtrodden, the Ivey League and the community college, you'll find the same mathematics wherever you go.

Some may have an advantage in innovation or inspiration, but it should he fair trivial for any sufficiently motivated individual to check the numbers.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#324

Post by sandworm101 »

jogjayr wrote: post #312
sandworm101 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but cars like Tesla have minimum operating/storage temperatures, usually on the order of -30c. With modern telemetry systems I don't want a warranty repair to be rejected because I had to park it overnight at -40. It hit -46 one night last winter, staying below -40 for several days in a row. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/how-cold-is-too-cold... "Do not expose Model S to ambient temperatures above 140…

Does it get that cold in a garage? I assume you'd always want to park a $100k automobile in a closed garage.

Lots of pickup trucks in that price range are parked outside. Garages are not a norm outside of detached homes. Diesels don't handle it well, but it doesn't actually damage them. The northern 2/3rds of Canada may be an edge case ... unless you actually live there.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#325

Post by cbolton »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #53
cbolton wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going to store energy by generating H2, is it more efficient to consume it in small cars rather than in big plants that convert it back to electrical power on demand?

I don't think the previous commenter meant converting it back; just that if there is an excess of power, e.g. on a sunny and windy day, that can be captured into H2 which is much easier to store than electricity. It wouldn't be converted back to electricity for the grid.

That's also what I understood, but I'm asking if that's really an argument in favor of H2 vehicles: with electrical vehicles we can also store excess power as H2.

Of course we then need to burn it in power plants to convert back to electricity. But which is more efficient?

Electricity -> H2 -> electricity -> electrical motor with 80% efficiency

vs

Electricity -> H2 -> hydrogen motor with 30% efficiency

My guess is that "H2 -> electricity" is a bit more efficient than "H2 -> hydrogen motor". So using H2 as excess power storage for hydrogen engines is only marginally better than doing the same for electrical engines.

And that's for excess power storage. For "normal" production/consumption the electrical engine is way more efficient.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#326

Post by NikolaNovak »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #116
KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

Gack... one of my pet peeves: 90% of my friends compare car millage in terms of "how much money I spend to refuel", completely ignoring: 1. Significantly different tank sizes - 53L to 70L on regular cars. 2. Different prices of gas (suburbs vs downtown, 87 vs 91 octane, etc) 3. Different habits - some refuel at 1/3 left, 1/4 left, 50km left, yellow light on, needle at the end of the gauge, etc It drives me absolutely…

... It's fascinating reading the comments here and other places that go between "that's crazy never heard of it couldn't imagine you're making it up" and "yup seen it / do it too" :-D

But basically for many of my non-science-major friends, it's money per tank or at best kilometers per refueling. Re another (for some reason dead?) comment, there may indeed be a correlation between cash flow and tendency to use "money per tank", haven't thought about it that extensively. And then whether education is a confounding or causal variable to either of those axis, it gets complex.

Location wise: Toronto Canada, Winnipeg Canada, and Fairmont Minnesota is where I've observed it, FWIW.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#327

Post by bdamm »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #157
bdamm wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn’t that much of a value proposition. Modern EVs do fast charging pretty well. Given that it takes on the order of 10 minutes to pull off a freeway, navigate a traffic light or two, select a pump, pay, use the restroom, grab a snack from the store, and then navigate another intersection to get back on the freeway, adding 5 more minutes to that time to make it a fast charging stop is not really a big deal.

Right. Assuming that: there is a fast charger available, there is no queue, the charger is not broken. When I drive from Aachen to Berlin, if I have to stop, I stop at the pump, pay - takes 5 minutes, use the bathroom maybe, get in the car and leave. When I arrive in Berlin, I don’t have to look for a parking space where there is a charger, I just park wherever it is legal to park. I leave the meeting, get in the car…

It is true that the DC fast charging (DCFC) infrastructure is still being built out. The number of endpoints is ramping up.

DCFC infra today is way better than the H2 infrastructure, and by quite a lot. Good luck holding your fingers.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#328

Post by slobiwan »

> has since taken the Californian market by storm, with approximately 400-500 units running in the sunshine state right now.

Um, "taken by storm" is a bit of an overstatement. 500 out of 14 million? https://www.statista.com/statistics/196010/total-number-of-r...

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#329

Post by NikolaNovak »

Closi wrote: post #124
NikolaNovak wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gack... one of my pet peeves: 90% of my friends compare car millage in terms of "how much money I spend to refuel", completely ignoring: 1. Significantly different tank sizes - 53L to 70L on regular cars. 2. Different prices of gas (suburbs vs downtown, 87 vs 91 octane, etc) 3. Different habits - some refuel at 1/3 left, 1/4 left, 50km left, yellow light on, needle at the end of the gauge, etc It drives me absolutely…

I hate to tell you this but 90% of your friends are silly, all mine talk about miles per gallon.

>>I hate to tell you this but 90% of your friends are silly,

Quoted out of context like that, that's probably the best compliment on living life right that I've had in a long time! :->

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