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Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

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Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#321

Post by NamTaf »

systemvoltage wrote: post #301
NamTaf wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. In Australia, the Critical Information Summary will detail the contract cancellation fee and the total minimnum cost (i.e. if you cancel it immediately after the cooling-off period) is explicitly stated right next to the cost that the company really wants to display. So in the case of $1000/mo rent, and a 1 month cancellation fee, the minimum total cost will be displayed as $2000. If it is the total remai…

In the US, it is exactly the same. There are absolutely zero dark patterns on housing leases, it is highly controlled. I am not sure if apartment lease is a good example. As a counter example, here are some shady practices and dark patterns in Australia (Internet Service Provider): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haImi4cWau0

What I describe is specifically shown on mobile and internet plans.

Regarding your linked youtube video (which as far as I can tell from skimming, is basically ranting about how ISPs penny-pinch on backhaul capacity and then fail to meet their advertised plan speeds during peak hours), I would encourage you to look at something closer to the present than from 4 years ago. All ISPs now report on minimum speeds during defined peak hours. I believe this is mandated by the ACCC. See the following URL:

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/12/nbn-typical-evening-speed...

A typical ISP plan choice page [1] lists the following information:

1) Monthly price (e.g. "$79/mo")

2) Minimum total cost of the contract (e.g. "$158 if cancelled within the first month")

3) Typical evening speed (e.g. "48 Mbit between 7pm and 11pm" on a 50Mbit plan), which will change depending on which address you enter and thus which technology option you get (namely, if you are on FTTN you will see lower typical speeds reported than a FTTH address, especially for higher speed plans)

This was introduced specifically in response to this issue, where peak-hours congestion was a common complaint amongst consumers.

ISPs are also increasingly publishing their CVC graphs for each point of interconnect. This lets you see a historical utilisation of the network.

[1]: https://www.telstra.com.au/internet/nbn as an example

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#322

Post by culturestate »

behringer wrote: post #290
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tanking your credit has very real consequences if, say, you need a home loan in the next 7 years. You'll end up paying for that $100 "savings" x 1000 in the long run Coïncidentally (and anecdotally), I was recently proximate to a situation where a new hire had their offer cancelled on account of their credit report. It became clear they had a habit of entering into and defaulting on small contracts. Nothing obscene…

You're just pointing out why it should be illegal for employers to run credit reports.

Generally I agree, but pulling a credit report makes sense in their case - financial services, presumably regulated, with an employee who will be placed in a position of trust and responsibility.

I do think everyone should be given the chance to contextualize and explain things, though; going through a rough patch and defaulting on a couple of credit cards is different from habitually refusing to pay legitimate bills, for example, and absent some other negative indicator shouldn't be disqualifying.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#323

Post by TomSwirly »

patates wrote: post #270
hansvm wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even enshrined into law in some states and locales. A few businesses have tried to market themselves as "no-nonsense, no-bullshit" and put the right prices on things, but that's totally illegal in parts of the US.

It's illegal to put on the price the customer is actually going to pay? My search attempt failed ("illegal to put price with VAT" neither g nor ddg liked it), please tell me more!

In fact, there was a wine store in New York City that tried to post the real prices and had some legal issues, so they would post _both_ the "price before tax" and the actual price (in some format that allowed them to evade the laws, so stupid).

I now live in the Netherlands. All prices are what you pay, _and_ the receipt breaks down how much of that goes to taxes, which I think is completely logical.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#324

Post by saberdancer »

patates wrote: post #270
hansvm wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even enshrined into law in some states and locales. A few businesses have tried to market themselves as "no-nonsense, no-bullshit" and put the right prices on things, but that's totally illegal in parts of the US.

It's illegal to put on the price the customer is actually going to pay? My search attempt failed ("illegal to put price with VAT" neither g nor ddg liked it), please tell me more!

Also not everyone pays the sales tax so it's probably easier to show price without tax and then on checkout you apply the needed tax rate.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#325

Post by maccard »

sherry-sherry wrote: post #258
cbmuser wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This could be a country specific thing but Adobe’s Australian site does not say that at all, quite the opposite. Nope, perfectly normal business practice and not even unethical. Please learn and understand how contracts work. They are a legal _obligation_ and you cannot just unilaterally change the conditions after signing a contract without provoking a contract penalty. It’s really just how contracts work, everywh…

Contracts that involve money over time should state the exact amount you are obligated to pay in total , including any and all fees. Adobe does not currently do that. In Australia at least, they can renew your annual contract at a higher rate without notice. That's not OK with me. The fact that you defend this practice shows where our ethics differ. I do not know how you can justify: A company signing you up for anot…

Not OP, and I agree that they should include the total payment expected but at this point the goalposts have moved from "adobe charges subscription cancellation fee" to "adobe doesn't show the difference between monthly and annual" to " adobe only shows the difference on the actual payment page" to" adobe doesn't display the annual total on the payment page".

Im no adobe apologist, but this entire thread is a witch hunt.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#326

Post by maccard »

maldeh wrote: post #24
wccrawford wrote: post #13

Doesn't this happen for every yearly plan that lets you pay in installments?

What does a yearly installment plan even mean in the context of a cloud subscription-based service, as opposed to one for which one has already received goods? And first of all, as the OP noted in the twitter thread, they believed they were doing a monthly subscription as advertised; the "yearly plan" interpretation is Adobe getting creative in the terms of service.

My health insurance provider does yearly installments for services rather than physical goods. Its no different to that. You've signer up to an annual plan at a discount but paid monthly for it.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#327

Post by vkazanov »

nicbou wrote: post #298
phreeza wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exact same thing (monthly fee, 12 or 24 month contract) is very common in Germany for mobile phone and home internet plans.

That's what I was thinking. If you want to get out of a contract early, you'll usually lose some money. That's true for rent, public transit passes, and many other types of subscription. If there are no consequences for bailing out of a contract, it makes them rather pointless.

But then there's always some kind of a cool down period, i.e. a time during which one can cancel a subscription without penalties.

At least this is how I expect things to work here, in the UK.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#328

Post by codetrotter »

kataklasm wrote: post #289
codetrotter wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this! I signed up for Creative Cloud for a year with monthly payments, but I was absolutely not prepared for the fact that if I didn’t cancel by the end of the 12 months then I would be signed up for another 12 months. This is not how subscriptions usually work, but with Adobe it is. With every other subscription I have ever had if I have it for say 14 months or 16 months and then want to cancel I have been free…

What? That's exactly how annual contracts have worked for the last decades... If you choose the annual contract, that will run for a full year with you paying monthly installments. If you want to cancel early, you will have to reimburse them. That is exactly the same as phone plans, gym plans (with the exception that gyms often don't allow early cancellation at all), etc. Now if you don't cancel what do you think wil…

I live in Norway. When I sign up for a phone subscription with a 12 months period for example, it will continue to run yes but crucially I can cancel at any point after those 12 months are up without any fees or anything, that’s what I am saying.

12 months binding is fine. Cancellation fee before the 12 months are up is fine.

Automatically binding your customers for another 12 months every year is insane and extremely hostile and abusive behavior. And I will have no part in such things so even though I love the software that Adobe makes I quite frankly will avoid doing any business with them ever again now to the extent that I am able to.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#329

Post by hannofcart »

paxys wrote: post #64
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I cancel my lease, the penalty is one month's rent. It doesn't seem unusual to charge a cancellation fee. But for a company like Adobe, they don't have to find a new tenant to take your spot, as a landlord would. So the claim of the cancellation seems less legitimate.

That sounds generous. If I cancel my lease I have to pay 100% of the remaining balance.

If you have to pay 100% of the remaining balance in order to cancel, then that simply means that there isn't really an option to cancel at all.

As an aside, you (paxys) are all over this post's comments defending Adobe vigorously. Do you possibly work for them?

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#330

Post by toxik »

alias_neo wrote: post #319

I got hit with this a few years back. I signed up for Ps CC for a month (I thought) to create an anniversary gift for my wife. I used it ONCE. Tried to cancel and they told me I had in fact signed up for a year, and that if I didn't cancel now, they'd give me two months free. I didn't want it at all! Anyway, I sucked it up, got on with the remainder of the year, because they wouldn't let me put the cancellation in ea…

It really should be illegal.
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