Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

femfosec.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 1001 posts

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#321

Post by stcredzero »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #214
jxidjhdhdhdhfhf wrote: post #17

This is kind of the end result we're heading for, where you can only talk candidly with people who are equal or lower than you on the oppression hierarchy. The shitty part is that I'm pretty sure 99% of people are reasonable human beings but the media has to make it seem like that isn't the case so the risk equation changes. Similar to how kids used to roam around the neighborhood but now it's deemed too risky becaus…

I believe this phenomenon is more like overshoot in an underdamped system than being the end result. Rapid changes always lead to overshoot. I also think the amount of overshoot is proportional to the amount of sexism that was present in a society thirty years ago. I believe Northern Europe has been trending slowly towards gender equality since the 90s, and thus the amount of overshoot here is much less from the rece…

I believe this phenomenon is more like overshoot in an underdamped system than being the end result. Rapid changes always lead to overshoot.

"Underdamped system" is very apt here. There are some positive feedback factors which exacerbate the situation in the "underdamped system." If you give over power to a mob, then the very principles which act as damping can be completely abandoned. Things like "innocent until proven guilty," and the valuing of evidence.

The answer to unchecked, abused, one-sided power is not more unchecked, one-sided power with the vector rotated 180 degrees. That's just welcoming more dysfunction and abuse.

we are starting from a more equal place if you look at the status pre-2017

We are starting from a place where typical middle-school, high school, and college kids are likely to answer with expletives towards the principles mentioned above -- depending on the context in which you ask their opinion.

EDIT: Way back when, when I was watching that Vice report about the Evergreen State College activists, and one of them said, "...then f#ck your Free Speech!" I became very afraid that our society was in for a world of hurt. I'm pretty sure Gandhi and MLK were for Free Speech and the other principles mentioned above.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#322

Post by karpierz »

zepto wrote: post #176
karpierz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I'm a professional, and strive to avoid treating people differently based on their gender/sex?

What about race? I ask because if you took that same attitude towards race, you could easily be accused of colorblind racism.

Same principle.

To be clear, I'm not saying that I do treat all people equally, regardless of their race, gender, sexuality, etc. I grew up in an environment filled with stereotypes, and they do seep through. I can only strive to avoid having that bias affect how I treat people. If it does leak through, I try to recognize it and do better in the future.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#323

Post by oirjjlksjmfljaj »

There's a rhetorical pattern I see in many articles, this one included, that perpetuates the issue this article is trying to address: men are the problem. Before, it was men saying bad things. Now, it's that men aren't saying things at all.

"I’m not going to suggest a solution to the problem of men clamming up." If not, then perhaps that's the wrong problem statement, and solutions will become more readily obvious and suggestible when not coached as the problem of men.

That's as candid as I can make it, and I feel that I have to use a throwaway account to do so.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#324

Post by wontendwell »

hobs wrote: post #275
c5o49t5b4QN4TU5 wrote: post #249

I’m a white cis male, and I work as a software engineer at a Silicon Valley unicorn. My employer is a perennial darling of the HN crowd, and is likely to continue its rocket ride in the years to come. I’ll be completely candid here: I have some kind of problem with women. This isn’t to say that I don’t like women or don’t want women to succeed. I just don’t want to associate with or be seen around women. I’m sure the…

Your methods and conclusions make no sense - associating with women doesn't get you canceled, Kevin Spacey didn't molest any women as far as I know. Smugness makes no sense when what it appears is you have some deep rooted psychological issues that need addressing.

I am going to be honest and admit I have a problem with women also and would much prefer to work only with other men.

In addition, I lament that it is iillegal for men to have their own organizations of any kind. It is not legal for men to have their own clubs or organizations in the Western world. It is illegal for men, and particularly white men, to self select and self organize. This is a factual statement.

I do wonder how this will play out in the end.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#325

Post by iamleppert »

throwaway20222 wrote: post #79

I also work in a very “woke culture.” In fact, as a straight, white, cis man I am in the extreme minority. I have been told that I can’t do my job which includes negotiating with LGBTQ+ companies because I am an “old, white, cis guy and there is always an unfair power dynamic there” just because of my identity. It is discrimination plain and simple, but I literally stand to have my career derailed if I fight back. On…

As a gay man myself, I urge you to consider leaving such a toxic environment. I’ve experienced similar (even though I’m gay myself). A more extreme version of what you described actually exists within the LGBT community itself; being gay is sometimes not enough anymore.

A common theme I’ve noticed in these groups is their penchant for using the term “cis male”. Doesn’t matter if you’re straight or gay, the hate is still the same.

It’s better to just walk away from these situations and groups.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#326

Post by booleandilemma »

baby wrote: post #116
throwaway20222 wrote: post #79

I also work in a very “woke culture.” In fact, as a straight, white, cis man I am in the extreme minority. I have been told that I can’t do my job which includes negotiating with LGBTQ+ companies because I am an “old, white, cis guy and there is always an unfair power dynamic there” just because of my identity. It is discrimination plain and simple, but I literally stand to have my career derailed if I fight back. On…

had to google what cis is: > A cisgender person (sometimes cissexual, informally abbreviated cis) is one whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth. For example, someone who identifies as a woman and was identified as female at birth is a cisgender woman. The word cisgender is the antonym of transgender.

I never really saw the point of this term, to be honest. To me it just feels like a sly way to normalize being abnormal.

Imagine if we had specific terms for someone who doesn't shoplift, or who doesn't eat other people's pets.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#327

Post by a3n »

tlogan wrote: post #140

Sadly, the current direction in the industry is: “let’s cover our ass”. Which eventually ends up with: less mentoring for women, less promotion, etc. The problem is that our system and society will not reward companies which do right things (hire, promote, etc.) but it will punish companies for slight irregularities.

That's been the way forever, the players just change over time. It used to mean prison torture and death to criticize the church. So people didn't. Now they do.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#328

Post by dang »

pron wrote: post #276
jxidjhdhdhdhfhf wrote: post #17

This is kind of the end result we're heading for, where you can only talk candidly with people who are equal or lower than you on the oppression hierarchy. The shitty part is that I'm pretty sure 99% of people are reasonable human beings but the media has to make it seem like that isn't the case so the risk equation changes. Similar to how kids used to roam around the neighborhood but now it's deemed too risky becaus…

Imagine a woman were to say, if we don't put an end to casual sexism, the end result we're heading for is that men will take any woman they see, kidnap her, and lock her in a dungeon. A much more realistic and likely outcome, and a far less hysterical perspective than yours, is that the needle was way too far one way, now people are learning to cope with it shifting, and if we try to be more empathetic, perhaps getti…

> men will take any woman they see, kidnap her, and lock her in a dungeon.

> And, of course, women do not want the vote

Please keep this sort of flamebait out of your HN posts. It's guaranteed to make everything worse, and you can make your substantive points without it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#329

Post by skjfdoslifjeifj »

jxidjhdhdhdhfhf wrote: post #17

This is kind of the end result we're heading for, where you can only talk candidly with people who are equal or lower than you on the oppression hierarchy. The shitty part is that I'm pretty sure 99% of people are reasonable human beings but the media has to make it seem like that isn't the case so the risk equation changes. Similar to how kids used to roam around the neighborhood but now it's deemed too risky becaus…

One of my main concerns is that almost all legitimate discussion is now happening in private invite only communities because people are too risk averse to continue to chat on public sites that will be indexed forever in a culture where they can be cancelled for even a slightly uncouth opinion. Almost all of my consumption and contribution on the Internet is now in private communities that are quite strict about invites and the trend among my colleagues is similar.

When I was younger I learned so much and established many valuable relationships by having discussions on public services/websites. Many legends in the field were quite accessible on public sites and mailing lists. My life would be much worse if I hadn't had those experiences and it feels like a lot of younger people that don't have connections to the SV bubble are now going to miss out on similar experiences.

This isn't to say that we should be tolerant of everything but it definitely feels like we've swung too far in the opposite direction.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#330

Post by geoduck14 »

jxidjhdhdhdhfhf wrote: post #17

This is kind of the end result we're heading for, where you can only talk candidly with people who are equal or lower than you on the oppression hierarchy. The shitty part is that I'm pretty sure 99% of people are reasonable human beings but the media has to make it seem like that isn't the case so the risk equation changes. Similar to how kids used to roam around the neighborhood but now it's deemed too risky becaus…

I respectfully disagree.

Feedback is best received when you relate to the person who is giving it and you trust the giver has your best interest at heart.

While the "current environment" may make it so women are more weary of men (and thus less likely to receive feedback) - I think there is a stronger current.

White male investors see people outside of their social group and realize that their advice might not be well received- not because of a flame war, but simply because they don't look like them. I'm fully convinced this effect is visible with all mixes of social groups (race, gender, religion, national origin, job family).

This effect sucks, and we should be looking for ways to unite ourselves to other people so that we can receive hard advice and also give hard advice.

Post reply on HN