Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I want a computer that I own

misc-stuff.terraaeon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 668 posts

Re: I want a computer that I own

#321

Post by saiya-jin »

bayindirh wrote: post #313
kokx wrote: post #15

I have a similar feeling, but with modern smartphones. Owning my computer is still relatively possible. I can build a computer from parts which I can choose, and have a choice in which operating system to install on them. Laptops are slightly more closed, but even on those I can choose the OS myself. Modern smartphones however, seem like walled gardens in which I have no control at all. I cannot choose any of the par…

I'll play the (intentional) Devil's Advocate here to present an alternative viewpoint. I like iOS, but not Android. Let me explain why. I personally love Linux, Unix philosophy (I'm even sometimes an old beardy zealot about POSIX standards and the old way ), and inherent customization possibilities. On the other hand, I don't want to manage my phone like a desktop or laptop computer, or a server because of a plethora…

Exactly opposite feedback of a colleague who switched from Android to Apple flagship few years back. After few days, he became frustrated how little the phone allows to tweak. I don't mean some low level tinkering, just normal things he got used to being able to change. He regretted the move since then but what happens people get often comfy with their choices and over time lose the will to do a big change again, so did he.

You mention setup & forget, that's how probably 98-99% of Android phones operate. Same for me, all the people and family I know. Initial install&setup after purchase, and then just running 1-click updates if one chooses to. After 3-4 years, switch to another one.

Hardware is +-same, what differences there are are invisible to user (apart from basic things like dual sims and memory card slots, which Apple lacks desperately... and bigger zoom for photos). Some like the smooth Apple UI, some feel they have the same on Android, most don't care. Some care about privacy which Apple seems to be the champion, most of the world simply doesn't care and isn't even aware. Some realize privacy is an illusion even with Apple, if you are 95% of the world that lives outside USA, various 3-letter agencies can do whatever they want and abuse your data in numerous ways without any recourse.

Its all relative, the most important is if one is happy with whatever one has and doesn't have unrealistic expectations.

Re: I want a computer that I own

#322

Post by teddyh »

asymptosis wrote: post #83
marcodiego wrote: post #39

You can have computers that you own today. There is a list here: https://ryf.fsf.org/categories/laptops . If you want something more powerful, there're these: - https://ryf.fsf.org/categories/workstations-and-servers - https://ryf.fsf.org/categories/mainboards Also, Andrius Stikonas achieved a blob-free fully functioning (AFAIK) RockPro64 more than a year ago: https://stikonas.eu/wordpress/2019/09/15/blobless-boot-wi…

Thanks for the ryf links, I didn't know about that. Something to keep in mind the next time I'm looking for hardware.

If you’re looking for RYF-certified hardware, I suggest looking here: https://h-node.org/hardware/catalogue/en

Re: I want a computer that I own

#323

Post by Pawka »

andagainagain wrote: post #236
koverda wrote: post #8

> Except for a handful of very over-priced models that I can't afford to buy. This statement here made me pause for a bit. He wants a computer with specific features, but doesn't want pay for the models that offer those features because they are too expensive? Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too, but unfortunately, reality has constraints.

Exactly. I want these things too. But I'm also willing to pay for them. Everyone wants the best stuff for free. That's not controversial. But it is controversial to complain that the best stuff is more expensive than the cheap stuff. Of course it is. That's the type of stuff they sacrificed to make it cheap. If they want low end free btw, they do have that too. Pinebooks are super cheap.

This is very correct thing you've mentioned.

The same situation can be spotted on services. E.g. people already forgot that running email service costs money and they take the free GMail account as given. But around the corner they blame Google for poor support then free GMail account is randomly closed.

It is not only email. But if you want (support|control|freedom|insert-yourself) - pay for it.

Re: I want a computer that I own

#324

Post by xxs »

bayindirh wrote: post #313
kokx wrote: post #15

I have a similar feeling, but with modern smartphones. Owning my computer is still relatively possible. I can build a computer from parts which I can choose, and have a choice in which operating system to install on them. Laptops are slightly more closed, but even on those I can choose the OS myself. Modern smartphones however, seem like walled gardens in which I have no control at all. I cannot choose any of the par…

I'll play the (intentional) Devil's Advocate here to present an alternative viewpoint. I like iOS, but not Android. Let me explain why. I personally love Linux, Unix philosophy (I'm even sometimes an old beardy zealot about POSIX standards and the old way ), and inherent customization possibilities. On the other hand, I don't want to manage my phone like a desktop or laptop computer, or a server because of a plethora…

>I like iOS, but not Android. Let me explain why.

No Firefox on iOS, hence useless.

Re: I want a computer that I own

#325

Post by a1369209993 »

detaro wrote: post #271
hakfoo wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood why they don't sealed box the wireless stuff then. I could imagine a family of cellular and Wi-Fi devices that present as Ethernet bridges. They'd offer a configuration interface reminiscent of home routers (go to a magic IP either with a REST API or a browser-controllable menu). This eliminates a lot of the delicate, externally facing configuration options and has the side benefit of eliminating a…

It is an isolated peripheral in many smartphones. Whatever you do, there is of course a risk malicious code could break out of the isolation, true for your Ethernet proposal too.

Having a malicious device on the other other end of a Ethernet connection is much less of a problem than having a malicious device that can DMA into main memory, which is something the baseband in Apple/Android phones at least allegedly can do.

Re: I want a computer that I own

#326

Post by ncmncm »

There are many, many more people who don't want you to have that computer than there are yous. So you have to want it more at least as many times over as they don't.

There certainly are other people who also want that computer. (E.g. me.) Maybe there are as many or more who do than don't want any of you, or us, to have them.

We have the advantage that what we want is just like the computers everybody else has, except with things taken out.

The software is doable. The CPUs have "management engines" that, at least in some cases seem possible to disable. The wi-fi chips are a problem; we might need SDR to bypass those.

But the cell phone system is going to be a problem.

Re: I want a computer that I own

#327

Post by Pawka »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #135

It's nice to want things, the question is what are you willing to contribute or give up to get them. The author wants to be free of Microsoft and then says he wants something like DOS on x286. Well, DOS was not free of Microsoft. To really be sure corporations and government are not spying on you, you need 100% open source for all software and firmware, if not chip schematics. This means slower hardware and less soft…

> Well, DOS was not free of Microsoft.

Probably he meant that Microsoft was not the same Microsoft as it is now. In the same way as having @gmail.com account let us feel "special" 15 years ago and Google was operating under "Don't be evil" flag. Things are changing.

Re: I want a computer that I own

#328

Post by bayindirh »

saiya-jin wrote: post #321
bayindirh wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll play the (intentional) Devil's Advocate here to present an alternative viewpoint. I like iOS, but not Android. Let me explain why. I personally love Linux, Unix philosophy (I'm even sometimes an old beardy zealot about POSIX standards and the old way ), and inherent customization possibilities. On the other hand, I don't want to manage my phone like a desktop or laptop computer, or a server because of a plethora…

Exactly opposite feedback of a colleague who switched from Android to Apple flagship few years back. After few days, he became frustrated how little the phone allows to tweak. I don't mean some low level tinkering, just normal things he got used to being able to change. He regretted the move since then but what happens people get often comfy with their choices and over time lose the will to do a big change again, so…

> Its all relative, the most important is if one is happy with whatever one has and doesn't have unrealistic expectations.

That sums it pretty well. I don't have anything to counter, but wanted to just say thanks for the frank comment and another perspective.

Re: I want a computer that I own

#329

Post by bboygravity »

bayindirh wrote: post #313
kokx wrote: post #15

I have a similar feeling, but with modern smartphones. Owning my computer is still relatively possible. I can build a computer from parts which I can choose, and have a choice in which operating system to install on them. Laptops are slightly more closed, but even on those I can choose the OS myself. Modern smartphones however, seem like walled gardens in which I have no control at all. I cannot choose any of the par…

I'll play the (intentional) Devil's Advocate here to present an alternative viewpoint. I like iOS, but not Android. Let me explain why. I personally love Linux, Unix philosophy (I'm even sometimes an old beardy zealot about POSIX standards and the old way ), and inherent customization possibilities. On the other hand, I don't want to manage my phone like a desktop or laptop computer, or a server because of a plethora…

> iOS takes all of these away. Complete backups are built-in (I know android has it, but I don't know how bulletproof is this)

Not to burn you down, but to burn Android down: no, Android does not allow you to take complete backups. Let alone "built-in". The only backups that are made are forced to Google cloud and only backs-up apps that where downloaded through Google Play and app settings for Google stuff. It is an extremely limiting almost non-backup if you're used to going around Google. When switching phones it's still a process of hours / days to get everything set-up the way you had it on a previous phone. Especially if it was rooted.

The only way I know to take a full backup image of an Android phone involves unlocking (not possible on all phones), rooting (not possible on all phones), installing Nandroid and pulling an image over USB. To restore to a "fresh" phone, you need to go through all of those steps again.

This would take hours to weeks depending on who does it and the puzzle your phone manufacturer sets up for you to unlock your phone.

This to me is one of the many absolutely mind-blowing facts about the trash Android OS (disclaimer: I'm still an Android user, because I can't accept a phone without a physical keyboard. Never used Apple products in my life).

Want to wipe your phone and restore an image after you travel into a "spy-state"? Nope. You simply can't with an Android phone.

You know a phone that was able to do this out of the box? My 2013 Blackberry Passport. No rooting or fiddling around required. Just install a desktop app, plug the phone into USB and press "full system backup".

Re: I want a computer that I own

#330

Post by bayindirh »

xxs wrote: post #324
bayindirh wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll play the (intentional) Devil's Advocate here to present an alternative viewpoint. I like iOS, but not Android. Let me explain why. I personally love Linux, Unix philosophy (I'm even sometimes an old beardy zealot about POSIX standards and the old way ), and inherent customization possibilities. On the other hand, I don't want to manage my phone like a desktop or laptop computer, or a server because of a plethora…

>I like iOS, but not Android. Let me explain why. No Firefox on iOS, hence useless.

That's another way to look at it. This is why we have choices and other mobile OSs.
Post reply on HN