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The Framework Laptop

frame.work

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Re: The Framework Laptop

#321

Fairphone is doing interchangeability for... phones https://www.fairphone.com/en/ Although the feature/price is a bit below average brands, they are greatly priced if you take into account the sustainability. I Hope more brands will go this way so concurrence could help get better products and reduce electronic trash.

I was excited to take the leap and try the FP2, and ended up really disappointed by it. The quality of both hardware and software was just pretty bad. The casing would warp and pop off over time; I had to order 2 replacements in the 2 years I had it. Separately, at the time (maybe still the case), they didn't ship parts at all to the USA, so when I moved there, I was unable to get replacement parts. My microphone module got so flaky that it would periodically lose a good connection to the bus and the person on the other end wouldn't hear anything I was saying, which took a while to figure out. The connectivity was also awful, maybe also a USA thing. I couldn't get reception at either my work place or several apartments I rented. It was incredibly frustrating because I really wanted it to work. That they phased out FP1 parts after 4 years confirmed to me that it just wasn't worth it. I keep my phones for that long anyways, it may as well at least be built well. Oh, there were also compatibility problems with Android apps because FP OS development often lagged pretty behind, but that's a different story.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#322

This looks really cool. I'm especially loving the weight. I really dislike a lot of recent laptops for their fragility and lack of upgrade capacity, so currently I'm using a T440P which comes in around 2.26kg - so if this is 1.3kg that's nearly a kilo of weight savings. The replaceable battery is great, the weight is great, the design is pretty good, and the keyboard seems fine - 1.5mm of key travel is usable. (The T…

Also, I'm sure there are lots of people in this thread who've tried a similar search, so what laptops are out there with most of the following: good keyboard, under 1.5kg, durable, battery life >6h, RAM > 8GB, semi-repairable?

My current model is a T440p, so using that as a comparison.

So far my search has turned up:

- Old Macbooks where the keyboard was still decent (but unfortunately they're not too tough or repairable)

- T470s or T460s: the T460s was the first model with the new magnesium case and the T470s keeps the same case (and is only a small change to the T460s.) Advantage of that is a 250g weight savings (1.35kg total!), 49 Wh battery that lasts 6-8 hours and charges to 80% in 90 minutes, traditional "yellow" Thinkpad charger on the T460s and USB-C charging on the T470s. It doesn't come at a huge cost in terms of durability either - still passes the MIL-STD-810. The T460s was the last of the S line to have drainage holes - the T470 and T460s have them, the T470s and T480s do not, but instead claim to have a "spillproof keyboard". Versus the T450s, it has HDMI out instead of VGA, has both batteries inside the case (no increased battery capacity), and better battery life with the base config. Unfortunately the batteries aren't removable on the outside, so it's a bit more of a pain to buy a used version of these (as you'd want to replace the batteries.)

- T450s: same case as T440 versions, last model with VGA out (which is super useful, I had a popular rant on VGA here a year or two ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20431195) Basically a mildly upgraded T440s, which is a good, if heavy laptop. Default capacity of 48Wh (24+24) and total weight 1.58kg with standard battery - good for 5h new, or 96Wh (24+72) and total weight 1.77kg with extended battery - good for ~10h new. And you can hot swap because of the internal battery!

- T480s: very similar physically (weight + case + materials wise) to T470s. Significantly faster processor than T470s, continuing the trend started by the T470s of spill resistant + no drain holes. Mechanical shutter for the webcam! Same keyboard as T470s, aka very good. Better thermal management than T470s! Speakers still the same old Thinkpad speakers, aka shitty. Slightly larger battery - 57Wh vs 51Wh in T470s - and a fast charge to 80% in 60 minutes - so 9-12 hours of real world battery life.

If anyone has any additional models to suggest, please do!

Re: The Framework Laptop

#323
post #197
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a Windows Precision Touchpad with a matte glass surface, and it feels pretty good!

There doesn’t seem to be much space left for a large battery. Do you have any estimates on capacity?

We integrated a 55Wh battery, which is pretty typical for 13.5-14" notebooks.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#324
Interesting tie but:

Approximately 75% of the aluminium ever produced is still in use today as it can be recycled endlessly without compromising any of its unique properties or qualities.

Aluminium’s life cycle provides significant benefits through recycling, saving 95% of the energy it would take to make new aluminium metal.

https://aluminium.org.au/sustainability/recycling-sustainabi...

Re: The Framework Laptop

#326
post #159

This looks great. Would like to see a model with a Zen 3 or ARM processor, as buying Intel hardware in 2021 is a bit of a hard sell for me. Outside of that, anything modular/repairable gets an A+.

Agreed, I love everything about this but I'm currently waiting to buy something with a 5800H.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're just USB-C dongles that snap into the chassis.. You can see better shots here: https://frame.work This is an unpopular opinion, but I think this proves that Apple was right to dump legacy ports. This solution is sort of clever but it sacrifices a ton of internal space that could have been spent on a bigger battery. USB-C, and the correct cables, are all anyone needs. (the Nespresso analogy is ridiculous, a la…

>I think this proves that Apple was right to dump legacy ports. How it proves it? Those guys do not drop ports, they just make them modular. All the "saved space" in Apple laptops become amazingly wasted space in your bag with tons of adapters and wires. I still dream to meet the one who made such 'wise' decision to tell him what I think about it personally! >USB-C, and the correct cables, are all anyone needs. I am…

I'm not sure what you need "tons of adaptors and wires" for since you're only talking about SD cards, but to address that one example: what percentage of laptop users are professional photographers? One percent? A quarter? There are at least six fashion photographers in my apartment building and even I know they're a negligible slice of the population.

Apple should not be designing their laptops around the needs of 1% of users. That's just dumb. They should be designing for most users, and they are.

Which strategy makes more sense…

1. users who need SD card readers should carry around SD card readers

2. users who don't need SD card readers should carry around SD card readers

I don't need an SD card reader! I'm glad Apple is using that space to make the laptop more portable with the most battery possible.

The whole point of laptop is put as much power as possible into a device that is as portable as possible. The point of a bag is to carry around shit that YOU might need and the rest of us don't. Goodness.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#328
post #60

I don't see any information on the licensing of the adapter card / inter-module interfaces. Can others build a Framework laptop without approval? Can others build cards without approval? Will it be a platform? Tell me how this isn't a Nespresso machine for silicon pods. :-) Edit: To be clear, even a "we have a generic base laptop and you can pick your I/O" concept is potentially a nice value prop, but it'd be good if…

They're just USB-C dongles that snap into the chassis.. You can see better shots here: https://frame.work This is an unpopular opinion, but I think this proves that Apple was right to dump legacy ports. This solution is sort of clever but it sacrifices a ton of internal space that could have been spent on a bigger battery. USB-C, and the correct cables, are all anyone needs. (the Nespresso analogy is ridiculous, a la…

I think either are fine TBH. Framework will definitely be a niche play to a segment of a pro market that is currently ignored. It will probably cost more than most equivalent laptops. They could in the future make a chassis that is just 4 USB-C ports and give you the space savings for other things.

I think the flush USB-C dongles are actually clever in another way, you could make storage expansion bricks that have pass through USB (or no passthrough) and get more storage on your laptop beyond the one M.2 slot. It would be especially nice for video editor types, who I've seen literally velcro expansion SSDs to their macbooks with USB angle adapters [0] because dealing with dangling drives is annoying.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ljFfuzStEQ

Re: The Framework Laptop

#329
If they release 3D CAD models, connector part numbers, and circuit schematics, I'm buying one as my next laptop (when my current one fails or goes obsolete; not as soon as it's released). I expect, if history is any indicator, that they'll be out-of-business by then, though. I'd want to know:

- How parts connect at a modular level (e.g. pinout and signalling between LCD and motherboard, how the battery communicates, etc.). I don't need to know e.g. motherboard schematic / layout

- Mechanicals (enough to 3d print things which fit)

- Ideally, as much firmware open as possible (esp. places like battery)

.. and so on. I'd pay a pretty good markup too.

I do agree with many posts. I'm not obsessive about laptop size and weight. I want something sturdy and which works well for work. Battery life, cooling, robustness, etc. all matter a lot more than weight.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#330
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are ultra-slim foldable RJ-45 connectors[1], which manufacturers could use if they could be bothered but they don't, because they would rather save the BOM cost of it and advertise the WiFi capabilities instead. Only Fujitsu use them AFAIK. [1] https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/12/8/16750574/p...

laptops without an rj-45 ethernet connector are just dumb. it's perfectly feasible to integrate one. just look a the dell latitude 7390. really, look at it: https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/eB6gGRDZWSYT4XW6SeSMtf-120...

That's just a place to gather junk. People rarely use rj-45 these days, that's why it's not present on most laptops.
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