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Coinbase S-1

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Re: Coinbase S-1

#321

Post by miglmj »

gruez wrote: post #305
dgellow wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not buy gold if that's what you want? What is better than gold about bitcoin? I never really understood this argument. I see some value in bitcoin but it doesn't have the same properties as precious metals: bitcoin value is only based on faith (so from this point of view it's not too different from so-called fiat currencies), there is no natural demand. If you have gold, silver, platinum, you will always have at…

>If you have gold, silver, platinum, you will always have at least some demand from the industry. Even if the majority of the current market price is due to speculation you still have an actual need for the metal. That's not the case for bitcoin. You could have the market losing faith tomorrow and it's done, your coins have zero value. Is there a difference between investing in gold (30% "real" value, 70% "speculated…

Only that it would have been way more profitable

Re: Coinbase S-1

#322

Post by jellicle »

bhupy wrote: post #163
pjc50 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely can, because all exchange users put their money in a big pot (the exchange's "cold wallet" and "hot wallet") rather than having individual wallets - this allows for instant trading. Exchange accounts aren't quite like banks but they are like brokerage accounts. Numerous exchanges have blown up when the wallet got stolen from underneath them - but in the gap between the theft and the discovery, the users…

Okay, but you're talking about a completely different thing. Your Bitcoin balance, as it's shown in Coinbase's UI, is very different from your Bitcoin balance as it's understood by everyone else on the public blockchain; and that too only temporarily. There is nothing that Coinbase can do to permanently alter that supply of Bitcoin. That is what we're talking about. In contrast, the permanent US Dollar supply can and…

You're still wrong. Any exchange, due to the crazy lax regulations in the industry, can do this:

* accept 100 bitcoins for deposit, giving their previous owners "100 claims against exchange X" in return

* sell those 100 bitcoins

* the new owners of those 100 bitcoins can roll down to exchange X and deposit them and accept 100 claims against exchange X in return

* and the exchange can sell those 100 bitcoins once again

Now we've got 100 bitcoins out in the world and 200 claims against exchange X, and each of these 300 items functions identically. They're exposed to all risk of gain or loss on the market, they can be traded, sold, used to purchase stuff... with the only limitation being that not every claim against exchange X can be immediately redeemed. But as long as not every person tries to redeem their claim at the same time, there are no problems.

Exchange X has permanently [until they exit the market] increased the usable supply of bitcoins. Nothing prevents an exchange from having more than 21 million bitcoins on deposit. With large enough exchanges, the banked, usable balance of bitcoins could be 100 million coins. 100 trillion. There is no limit.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#324

Post by tonfa »

rawtxapp wrote: post #100
waheoo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a trope. Do you pull your funds from interactive brokers after you're done trading? What about vanguard? 401k?

I'm not sure how you can pull stocks from an exchange once you're done trading. Personally, I deposit coins into an exchange, do my trade and withdraw it as soon as possible. Not just because I think there's a risk they might get hacked, etc, I also don't want them to hold my funds later on for reason x,y,z.

You can move them to the DRS (https://ibkr.info/article/2192) but then it while take a while to move it back to your broker if you want to trade.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#325

Post by Aunche »

thedudeabides5 wrote: post #301
PKop wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All it takes Oh just that huh? The market wouldn't value that new fork on par with finite BTC, so those miners would be hurting themselves, and burning energy for a worth-less coin. This action is trivial to consider, so what makes you think it has bearing on BTC value? When these miners leave old network, hash power & difficulty go down so other miners who prefer finite protocol can come in to mine. What's the actu…

Actually this isn’t the only way. If financial intermediaries like Coinbase start extending credit or engaging in fractional reserve banking, then yes, you can “create more Bitcoin.” Just like how in the gold standard, you could still create more gold backed dollars by making a mortgage loan... Kind of funny how all these new monetary wizards miss out on this simple fact.

This is a really dangerous way to create more Bitcoin. If the credit markets freeze, then the entire system collapses.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#326

Post by dannyw »

kgwgk wrote: post #188
andy_ppp wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a reasonable sized moat then no? I’ve no idea $77bn seems large, but they intend to be the world’s financial system in 10-20 years so could be worth even more.

> They have a reasonable sized moat then no? Do they? I'd rather own a couple of major exchanges in today's financial system for the same price. ICE net income $2.1bn market cap $63bn NDAQ net income $0.5bn market cap $23bn CME net income $2.1bn market cap $72bn CBOE net income $0.4bn market cap $11bn

You've listed exchanges, but Coinbase is much more than just an exchange. They are also a broker, as well as bank (provision of loans), custody-provider, etc.

here are some brokers...

Charles Schwab (SCHW): $119.81bn

Interactive Brokers (IBKR): $32.47bn

Re: Coinbase S-1

#327

Post by dgellow »

dannyw wrote: post #307
dgellow wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not buy gold if that's what you want? What is better than gold about bitcoin? I never really understood this argument. I see some value in bitcoin but it doesn't have the same properties as precious metals: bitcoin value is only based on faith (so from this point of view it's not too different from so-called fiat currencies), there is no natural demand. If you have gold, silver, platinum, you will always have at…

The industry demand of gold is minuscule. It's a rounding error. Buying a $1000 asset with $10 in "intrinsic value" is really no different to bitcoin. Bitcoin can be transferred electronically, and can move across borders without being hassled at customs.

Where do you get this from? Statista data show way more than 10% of demand from the Jewelry and tech industries: https://www.statista.com/statistics/274684/global-demand-for...

Re: Coinbase S-1

#328

Post by thinkmassive »

temp8964 wrote: post #288
cactus2093 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t speak for everyone there, “we” don’t all have the same reason. I like Bitcoin as a diversification for being a “better version of gold” - it has the scarcity and you can physically own it but it is much easier to store and send anywhere in the world if needed. These properties also mean that in a pinch, if you live in an unstable society or one facing high inflation it can work as an alternative financial syste…

Can you "physically own" Bitcoin? Or what does "physically own" mean exactly? I kind of understand what "physically own" gold means, but not sure it means the same as "physically own" Bitcoin. Getting downvoted on this. I am not complaining about the downvotes, but seriously, please enlighten me...

What users of the Bitcoin network own are private keys. These allow you to control corresponding entries on the Bitcoin ledger by signing transactions and broadcasting them to the Bitcoin network.

Signed transactions can even be shared through other channels, to be broadcast at a later time for settlement, like a check. This is how the Lightning Network functions.

Keys can be held in many forms, including purely in software, digitally inside a hardware secure element, or converted to words and printed on paper or metal.

Bitcoin even has basic scripting that allows more complex setups, such as only allowing a ledger entry to be updated after a certain duration (timelocks) or requiring a quorum of signers (multisig), so simply having a corresponding private is not always sufficient to immediately spend the corresponding funds.

In the past “brain wallets” were popular, where the private key is generated from a memorized passphrase. These are a bad idea because it’s trivial to watch addresses corresponding to every entry a password dump, and automatically move these funds whether you’re the original owner or not. I mention this to illustrate how having the corresponding private key is necessary to control funds but it’s not sufficient to prevent someone else from controlling the same funds.

On top of all this, most “Bitcoin users” leave “their” Bitcoin on exchanges, so what they really own are IOUs rather than Bitcoin itself.

Bitcoin “ownership” can be pretty abstract.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#329

Post by Trasmatta »

rvz wrote: post #17
mensetmanusman wrote: post #12

Do you think BTC is worth $500k? If so buy Coinbase.

Before you do that, wait for the bear market and when the financial system 'goes back to normal'.

What if the current bull market goes to $200k, and then the bear market retreats to $100k? This is why trying to time the market doesn't work.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#330

Post by kristiandupont »

jmcqk6 wrote: post #264
cactus2093 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t speak for everyone there, “we” don’t all have the same reason. I like Bitcoin as a diversification for being a “better version of gold” - it has the scarcity and you can physically own it but it is much easier to store and send anywhere in the world if needed. These properties also mean that in a pinch, if you live in an unstable society or one facing high inflation it can work as an alternative financial syste…

> an unstable society or one facing high inflation What are the chances that in an environment where the USD is not usable, there is an available network and electricity that makes bitcoin usable?

It might be available, but you might not be able to open a bank account for it. You can store cash of course, but that has a different set of problems.
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