Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

paygo.media

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 840 posts

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#321

Post by Macha »

scrollaway wrote: post #164
madeofpalk wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> once in awhile an interesting problem gets you working on the company laptop all Saturday, I will never do this. I havent done this since I was very very young at my first job and i didn't know better. I couldn't think of anything sader or more depressing that giving away my own personal time for someone else. I'm not going to work on the weekend. I've got much better things to do, like play video games or literall…

Uh, I agree with the sentiment of not wanting to work for free, but > I couldn't think of anything sader or more depressing that giving away my own personal time for someone else. You just described a job. Whether you're giving your time away or getting paid for giving it up makes no difference to the fact you are parting with it in order to produce for someone else.

Giving away pretty clearly means the objection is to the free nature. Getting paid makes a big difference - you now obtain tangible value from the interaction that you can turn into things like food or housing.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#322

Post by darkwizard42 »

kenneth wrote: post #109
pyb wrote: post #3

A lot of interesting things here, but also the usual "billionaire complaining about all these entitled employees" vibes.

Not sure why everyone is assuming Noam is a billionaire. He mentioned he had little equity, and from what I could find that amounted to single-digit millions out of the acquisition's billion-dollar price tag. Of course, compensation since then and Google's rising market capitalization have surely increased that, but I would bet it's still quite far off from the billion, and even far off from the 9 digits. Not that it…

When people say "billionaire" in this line of comments they are trying to point out the perceived hypocrisy that Noam is likely VERY well off... even having a few million dollars can set your family up for life. You are immediately in the top 1% in the US which puts you even higher anywhere else in the globe.

Noam could never pick up a job again and he will have likely made more money than the average US worker will in their lifetime.

His observation of scorn at employees who are well-compensated NOT jumping at the opportunity to work weekends to get something done for users is a sign of privilege (and probably also a sign of his drive, which is commendable) and maybe a little lack of empathy.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#323

Post by dingo454 »

andrew_ wrote: post #225

It's astounding in so far as how unique this conversation is to tech. I've worked as a pipefitter, electrician's apprentice, and general construction hand in the past - I could only imagine how it would go telling my former foreman that I'd like to head off to yoga in the morning for an hour. Big jobs that require overtime to complete get folks to work that overtime - even within a union. If it's not you, it's someon…

I'm in IT, but I've worked as electrician and carpenter for some years. IMHO this is not easily comparable as you'd think.

You can easily estimate the time required to perform some physical tasks. It's a bit different if you're working on something you never did before, but again as an electrician or carpenter this rarely happens after the training period. Working more hours generally does result in more work done, although the physical factor makes this work-life balance waaay more obvious to whoever is working.

In IT I'm constantly working on things which are slightly different than before. Time estimation is big common issue in the field. I'll be fully honest and say that working 4 or 8 hours a day makes absolutely no difference in work being done for me, except in very rare cases. Dedication has nothing to do with it (I love what I do). Technically I'm not stopping to work at the 6pm hour mark, my brain keeps thinking about technical issues also during off hours and the weekend.

I don't know about you but I felt physically tired, but satisfied at the end of the day when working as a carpenter. Sense of accomplishment was much more rewarding. When coming home I would enjoy something different. The next day I was recharged.

When working on problem-solving, I don't feel physically tired, but I can still feel exhausted in a way that prevents me doing other things. It's much, much harder to find a good balance. And I'd stress this again: putting more working hours sitting in front screen is not necessarily achieving anything.

Note also that these crazy perks as outlined in the article are not my experience in IT working in several places in EU. Yes, our working hours are more flexible due to the nature of the job, but I've yet to see such entitlement in my career. Maybe I've been unlucky.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#324

Post by watwut »

jpm_sd wrote: post #20
paulcole wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole thing is one red flag after another, but the biggest standout to me is the author being annoyed coworkers are taking personal days. That’s what they’re there for! When I don’t want to work, I use the benefit that lets me not work.

Try managing a team where people take last minute personal days all the time, without having to give advance notice or a reason.

In every single work I was at people sometimes took a day off next day. It is not like everyone would had infinite amount of days off - it was never a massive problem.

Once in a while someone is missing. Typically, rest of team moves on through their day normally.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#325

Post by kryogen1c »

asidiali wrote: post #297
yardie wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in union shops as well while not being in the union. Union overtime is highly coveted because it's a 2x-3x bonus that a lot of my union friends used towards a downpayment, kids' college tuition, retiring earlier, or starting a business. No one had to step up because everyone was stepping up. And the shop chief usually decided who got that overtime (i.e. young worker trying to buy a house might get higher…

This - the mental overhead of a software job is not something that is easily turned off during non work hours - especially with a pushy employer or coworkers with no work life balance themselves. You can’t cut steel at home after dinner no matter how hard you try if you don’t have the tools. Conversely, I’m sure you have a computer, can you just login to GitHub for two seconds to review this PR I submitted at 9pm...

> the mental overheard of a software job is not something that is easily turned off during non work hours

this is very ignorant.

the ability to leave work at work is a personality trait. the job, or type of job, has little to do with it.

software development is not some exceptionally difficult thing that tortures and haunts developers.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#326

Post by andrew_ »

asidiali wrote: post #297
yardie wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in union shops as well while not being in the union. Union overtime is highly coveted because it's a 2x-3x bonus that a lot of my union friends used towards a downpayment, kids' college tuition, retiring earlier, or starting a business. No one had to step up because everyone was stepping up. And the shop chief usually decided who got that overtime (i.e. young worker trying to buy a house might get higher…

This - the mental overhead of a software job is not something that is easily turned off during non work hours - especially with a pushy employer or coworkers with no work life balance themselves. You can’t cut steel at home after dinner no matter how hard you try if you don’t have the tools. Conversely, I’m sure you have a computer, can you just login to GitHub for two seconds to review this PR I submitted at 9pm...

This is a most excellent point. I will say that movement of scope, scheduling, and the like does change during all hours of the day, and calls to the home to talk about that are common after hours.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#327

Post by CydeWeys »

freeone3000 wrote: post #293
serverholic wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) So you're saying that giving people $1000/month would open up zero new possibilities for people? 2) It's not that simple because different goods will respond differently. Certain goods will get cheaper because the increased sales will allow for more economies of scale.

Housing is the big one mentioned, and it does not allow for any further economies of scale than already exist. Rent rises based on the prevailing salary of the area -- house prices as well, since they represent the years of rental income. It's not even necessarily a supply issue, since Seattle has more empty houses than it has homeless people! Prices simply rise to whatever the market can bear. So under the current s…

Housing is a normal economic market that is responsive to changes on both the demand and supply side. The major problem with housing in this country is that restrictive policies have put a damper on housing supply so that it is not able to keep up with demand. Seattle has a normal amount of vacancies in it. It could have 2X the housing (and thus have a lot more people living in Seattle paying lower rents) and still have the same percentage vacancy. It's not a real or valid argument to say "look there's more vacancies than homeless people, so supply must be fine".

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#328

Post by yardie »

asidiali wrote: post #297
yardie wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in union shops as well while not being in the union. Union overtime is highly coveted because it's a 2x-3x bonus that a lot of my union friends used towards a downpayment, kids' college tuition, retiring earlier, or starting a business. No one had to step up because everyone was stepping up. And the shop chief usually decided who got that overtime (i.e. young worker trying to buy a house might get higher…

This - the mental overhead of a software job is not something that is easily turned off during non work hours - especially with a pushy employer or coworkers with no work life balance themselves. You can’t cut steel at home after dinner no matter how hard you try if you don’t have the tools. Conversely, I’m sure you have a computer, can you just login to GitHub for two seconds to review this PR I submitted at 9pm...

This is where you ignore the email until the morning. The only place where working offhours has a use is in early startups where money is tight, deadlines are short, and products are loosely defined. If you're working at a well managed company managers will nip it in the bud. Either way I'm not in college and I'm getting my 6-8 hours of sleep. If I work late I arrive late and expect no argument over it.

I've only ever gotten an email like that because someone's ass was on the line for a 12am deadline. You only send an email like that because you are burning a personal favour.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#329

Post by jolux »

kryogen1c wrote: post #325
asidiali wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This - the mental overhead of a software job is not something that is easily turned off during non work hours - especially with a pushy employer or coworkers with no work life balance themselves. You can’t cut steel at home after dinner no matter how hard you try if you don’t have the tools. Conversely, I’m sure you have a computer, can you just login to GitHub for two seconds to review this PR I submitted at 9pm...

> the mental overheard of a software job is not something that is easily turned off during non work hours this is very ignorant. the ability to leave work at work is a personality trait. the job, or type of job, has little to do with it. software development is not some exceptionally difficult thing that tortures and haunts developers.

> software development is not some exceptionally difficult thing that tortures and haunts developers.

There's definitely a difference between white collar/knowledge work and manual labor or highly people-focused work, though. I've worked retail and food service before and the mental overhead is absolutely different. It took me a long time (years) to learn how to turn off my brain at 5pm and stop programming when I got my first tech job. Not something I had a problem with in more manual industries: when you're not at the workplace, you can't work, even if you wanted to.

Post reply on HN