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“User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

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Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#321

Post by bcrosby95 »

mdoms wrote: post #210
toto444 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have moved from using reddit to frequenting a traditional forum where the content is ordered chronologically and that makes an insane difference to the quality of the conversation. You go from the most outrageous at the top to the most discussed at the top. All content gets a chance to be read. Even if it the first user find it uninteresting. On reddit, if what you post gets a downvote very quickly, you're basicall…

It's such a shame that most hobby-related content has moved to Reddit. Because of the way the algorithms work there are no long-running threads and recent content is heavily favoured. This is terrible for hobby boards because it means that content from long-timers gets drowned out by newbies asking the same questions over and over. In my experience hobby subreddits are completely dominated by inexperienced newbies gi…

I think it's mostly a problem of not having sub-subreddits.

Any reasonable forum with - checks simracing - 168k members would have a dozen subforums for different reasons soas not to drown out the general forum. One might even be "post your rig" or "newbie questions".

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#322

Post by bagacrap »

s_dev wrote: post #7

Anything that provides a 'hit' stands a chance of being addictive. Including cheeseburgers and fun video games. >Most alarming is the “internet points”. On Reddit, this is called Karma. On Twitter, it’s likes and retweets. Ostensibly, this simple numeric score displays the community’s overall attitude toward a given piece of content. On its face, this appears to be a radically democratic concept; Everyone can vote! T…

He could be referring to pinned posts.

I think it's valid to say the point system contributes to the formation of the echo chamber.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#323

Post by bagacrap »

slothtrop wrote: post #58
Fricken wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marshall McLuhan, the media theorist, pointed out the hazards of "Peer to peer electronic media" in the 1960s with uncanny accuracy. Calling someone a luddite when your own views are as anachronistic as they are is ridiculous. And stop flattering yourself by calling social media 'tech'. Every industry uses technology, calling it 'tech' doesn't distinguish it in any way. Social media is a medium for a exchange like a…

> stop flattering yourself What does this even mean? Why would it be flattering himself?

The implication is that the poster works on social media.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#324

Post by dleslie »

p1necone wrote: post #315
p1necone wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think Fortnite is as bad as you're making it out to be (certainly not even in the same league as most mobile microtransaction fests). The core of Fortnite is a pretty good (imo, although I prefer Apex Legends) battle royale fps, and the microtransactions are purely cosmetic items. In contrast a lot of the big mobile games are barely even games. They're just AI controlling your gambled for gacha charact…

Also bear in mind Fortnite was in no means special in offering cosmetic items for microtransactions. The game just got so big that it's a convenient punching bag.

The Fortnite store is special; it's an industry-leading example in exploiting social anxiety through time-limited unique cosmetics.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#325

Post by dleslie »

p1necone wrote: post #304
dleslie wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, PC Gaming strangely hasn't been dominated by this phenomenon, despite EA's, Activision's, and Epic's best efforts. Fortnite is addiction-tuned F2P casinowear, and it's done gangbusters, but the industry hasn't managed to copy that formula with great success.

I really don't think Fortnite is as bad as you're making it out to be (certainly not even in the same league as most mobile microtransaction fests). The core of Fortnite is a pretty good (imo, although I prefer Apex Legends) battle royale fps, and the microtransactions are purely cosmetic items. In contrast a lot of the big mobile games are barely even games. They're just AI controlling your gambled for gacha charact…

What's important about Fortnite isn't the core game, it's the social experience and the role that the cosmetics and store play in that.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#326

Post by dleslie »

naravara wrote: post #241
dleslie wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, PC Gaming strangely hasn't been dominated by this phenomenon, despite EA's, Activision's, and Epic's best efforts. Fortnite is addiction-tuned F2P casinowear, and it's done gangbusters, but the industry hasn't managed to copy that formula with great success.

The reward loop works much better when it can be in your pocket and be accessed during moments of boredom/idleness. The lack of friction before getting pulled in is at least as much of a causative factor as the three issues the article highlights. Every little bit of friction diminishes its effectiveness. One thing that's ironic with a lot of mainstream AAA gaming though, is that even though they aren't copying the r…

Fortnite is a mobile game; it's why Epic is having a fight with Apple.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#327

Post by thethethethe »

montenegrohugo wrote: post #8

I'd add that algorithmic feeds are another part of the triad (quartet?), and probably the worst offender. Personalized addictive content is on the rise (tiktok, YouTube, even Facebook and Twitter curate your newsfeed "for you" ), and these ml-determined feeds drive engagement to the highest possible levels, leading to an incredible waste of time, a distorted world view (mostly the posts with the highest engagement wi…

> Personalized addictive content is on the rise (tiktok, YouTube, even Facebook and Twitter curate your newsfeed "for you" ), and these ml-determined feeds drive engagement to the highest possible levels, leading to an incredible waste of time

I like watching YouTube, I learn a lot from it. My wife likes watching tiktok, it is an exchange of culture. How exactly is this a waste of time? What would be a better use of my time? Making money for someone else? Watching TV? If I (and many others) enjoy it, why does it matter?

> distorted world view (mostly the posts with the highest engagement will be those that call for outrage, which leads to radicalization

This is propaganda. Do you think the perspective imposed on the public by an elite group of individuals, hand-fed information by government press conferences doesn't lead to a distorted world view?

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#328

Post by 29083011397778 »

jwalton wrote: post #316

I don’t understand how people can stand to use Facebook. It was fun a long time ago. Then, when I didn’t use it for a few weeks, I started getting “notifications” that, instead of saying “someone commented on your post” or “someone liked your post” they were “someone commented on someone else’s post”, or “someone posted something”, and I thought “These are not notifications, these have nothing to do with me.” And tha…

To add insult to injury as far as comparing us to the frog in question: the frog likely left. Older experiments show a mix of the frog leaving or staying (unless lobotomized), though contemporary experimentation appears to confirm the frog will leave of it's own accord.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#329

Post by ED_Radish »

munk-a wrote: post #293
watwut wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much all people I ever heard about or new who has issue with gaming were addicted to something like lol, wow or pubg. The people who play whole night and that are irritable and underperforming during day, who made gaming their whole life, are not playing causual games. They are playing console and pc games.

Those folks are paying their time into the game sure - but casual games in IAPs can drain bank accounts surprisingly fast from folks that'd normally consider themselves above microtransactions. There is a lot of very sneaky psychological tricks that go into trying to get folks to spend an insane amount of money - I'd compare that to something like CS:GO which is trying to get everyone to spend a little bit of money b…

Well i mean csgo stuff holds value and can be sold off so its not really comparable to normal mtx.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#330

Post by andrewmcwatters »

hesdeadjim wrote: post #303
dleslie wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left casual games because of this; every partner and publisher we worked with was heavily pressuring us to optimize for whales. They wanted the long tale for marketing, and the whales for revenue; and once hooked, the core interaction loop was to be as addictive as possible. When I left it was Candy Crush that was the top of the field; and we were in awe. They were _always_ rewarding players, and were pushing micro…

I was in early and rode the wave from selling real games for $4.99, then $2.99, then $0.99, and finally... free. At which point the “real” part of making games was out the window and it was all user acquisition, LTVs, retention, and ugh. Couldn’t have been more happy to get out of casual and F2P games four years ago. I honestly thought I might be done making games after that experience. Thankfully, between doing the…

> Thankfully, between doing the indie thing for a few years and starting a new studio last year, it became clear it was the medium and not the craft that was the problem.

Do you mean to say it's specifically a mobile issue?

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