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School or Prison

schoolprison.com

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Re: School or Prison

#321

Post by alsetmusic »

nolongerlowres wrote: post #276
throwaway998662 wrote: post #266

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

Thank you for posting this. I couldn’t believe the other comments trying to equate schools with prison. It’s unbelievable how we treat prisoners in the US. I wish there was more I could do than vote and donate to causes like the ACLU. Starting to realize that my beliefs are in the minority re: how to treat fellow countrymen, even those who have committed crimes.

See if you can get involved in a community outreach program or similar.

A friend was in a therapy theater program that operated at San Quentin. They helped the prisoners write and act in theater pieces. At the end of the program, one of the prisoners, a lifer, told her that it had given his life meaning for the first time since sentencing. He'd been in for something like 15 years. I can't imagine how it would feel to find out you made such a difference for someone.

The US prison system is a terrible thing. That our society derives jokes about the atrocities within really shows the depravity of its citizenry.

Re: School or Prison

#322

Post by MajorBee »

djur wrote: post #222
torben-friis wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can be. If you're curious, check out "worlds toughest prisons" on Netflix, an episode that shows a Norwegian rehabilitation-focused prison. You can see how the place is both secure and warm.

I've seen pictures of Norwegian prisons. They certainly look comfortable, but I wouldn't describe them as "open, warm, and inviting". They look halfway between a no-frills dorm and the psychiatric ward I stayed in for a while as a teenager. Certainly far more humane than American prisons, but still clearly _institutional_.

Once again, the adage "don't let perfection be the enemy of good" applies.

Re: School or Prison

#323

Post by leephillips »

jolux wrote: post #311
leephillips wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. I tried to treat my students as adults, to the occasional chagrin of the administration, as much as possible. I definitely did not trust them—I knew too much—but I tried to pretend that I did. So my ploy was to discourage the students who would otherwise go hang out in the bathroom every single class. Of course one needs to go several times per day. But that does not translate to every time my class me…

For my context here, I went to a high school that was centered around progressive education principles and I never had to ask to go to the bathroom. There were no disciplinary policies like that. And in fact, everything was fine. We all still worked hard, paid attention, and got our diplomas. I think too many teachers assume students are all malicious gremlins trying as hard as they can to avoid school. Turns out, mo…

Look, I’m with you (although nothing can be “centered around” anything). But most schools are not organized that way, and there’s only so much one teacher can do to buck the system. As it was, I got fired from that particular job after two years, and it wasn’t because I was too strict, certainly.

Re: School or Prison

#324

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway998662 wrote: post #266

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

[deleted]

Re: School or Prison

#325

Post by echelon »

This is not very difficult. The design constraints of each are fairly unique. A few good heuristics:

- Windows: Few or many? Are they only on the top floor? Are they small? (Prisons don't have lots of windows.)

- Bars on windows? (Dead giveaway for a prison.)

- Lots of security cameras? (Not the best indicator, but it weights in favor of prison.)

- Fences around parking lots? (Criminals might want to break into cars.)

- Is the name on the building large, inviting, and stylish? (School.)

I think the message being sent is more interesting than the "game".

Re: School or Prison

#326

Post by jolux »

ralusek wrote: post #320
jolux wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my context here, I went to a high school that was centered around progressive education principles and I never had to ask to go to the bathroom. There were no disciplinary policies like that. And in fact, everything was fine. We all still worked hard, paid attention, and got our diplomas. I think too many teachers assume students are all malicious gremlins trying as hard as they can to avoid school. Turns out, mo…

Your school sounds like the sort of place that would select for well behaved children whose parents had the ability and wherewithal to select a progressive school. I don't think policies like that work in schools filled to the brim with students who absolutely do not care about school in the slightest.

Perhaps, but the policies we do have in the US pretty clearly do not work either. Beyond that I think treating children in a humanist fashion is an ethical obligation we hold as adults, but this perspective is apparently quite radical.

Re: School or Prison

#327

Post by smbullet »

escape_goat wrote: post #318
wisty wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it doesn't serve as a deterrent (based on talking to ~50 prisoners about this) 1. Talking to prisoners doesn't mean it's not a deterrent for the rest of the population. This is a massive selection bias, it's like saying diet and exercise doesn't work because morbidly obese people say it doesn't work for them. 2. People sometimes lie (often first to themselves), especially about their motivations. This is like an an…

Could we just not do things like this. I'm sorry to be singling anyone out but there is a pattern here. People, the "well actually" rebuttals that you pull out of thin air in two minutes are not a useful or meaningful response to someone's reportage of their lives experience and do not facilitate the quality of discussion that brought you to HN in the first place, and if you do not understand that then consider that…

Rather than personal attacks you should take the time to actually respond to their comment if you feel so strongly against it.

Re: School or Prison

#329

Post by Bostonian »

tolbish wrote: post #307
throwaway998662 wrote: post #266

As someone who's been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder/rape, you'll prob…

> Why don't we have more outrage against this outdated institution created out of 1600 era values? Americans with nice lives, particularly the types to frequent HN, are insulated from the effects of our criminal justice system. Concern for schooling takes precedence.

Americans who live in low-crime areas are somewhat insulated from criminal justice "reform" that sets criminals free and increases crime rates.

Re: School or Prison

#330

Post by felipemnoa »

jolux wrote: post #311
leephillips wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. I tried to treat my students as adults, to the occasional chagrin of the administration, as much as possible. I definitely did not trust them—I knew too much—but I tried to pretend that I did. So my ploy was to discourage the students who would otherwise go hang out in the bathroom every single class. Of course one needs to go several times per day. But that does not translate to every time my class me…

For my context here, I went to a high school that was centered around progressive education principles and I never had to ask to go to the bathroom. There were no disciplinary policies like that. And in fact, everything was fine. We all still worked hard, paid attention, and got our diplomas. I think too many teachers assume students are all malicious gremlins trying as hard as they can to avoid school. Turns out, mo…

>> I think too many teachers assume students are all malicious gremlins trying

It only takes a few to ruin it for everybody.

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