321–330 of 525 posts
People object to speeding fines but receiving them is entirely optional.
Personally, I'd rather they clamped down harder on tailgating, poor lane discipline and uninsured drivers than on motorway speed limits.
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Sweden: it’s not possible to charge an owner for a crime, only the driver. It’s also not a crime to not name the driver. If a speed camera photo is blurry or dark (like in a place with darkness most of the year) the case is as far as I know closed and no inquiry is made. If I realize too late that I’m going to speed past a traffic cam then I usually just hold my hand up near the wind screen to cover my face and the r…
I wonder how COVID-19 inspired mask wearing has impacted the identifying of drivers.
Seems weird to me, as someone who’s used to the UK system of photo from the back and the owner being responsible for identification of the driver, that people hadn’t already figured this one out :)
You can’t easily measure inattention but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.
The solution doesn’t only have to be in penalties, it could be in making it harder to be inattentive to begin with.
That said, this is all low priority stuff in the UK. In the UK today there are basically zero road traffic police, you are exceedingly unlikely to come across any. Their numbers have been cut relentlessly as miles driven have increased. And yet... road deaths are down over the same 20 years and mobility is up.
Road traffic enforcement isn’t even in the top 1000 issues facing the UK today.
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> Maybe making a regualr speeding fine a life changing amount rather than the negligable sum it is now would improve people's behaviour, raise some much needed revenue and save a few lives too The fine is negligible if you are well off. It isn't if you aren't. If you get points (for SP-30), the increase in insurance is about £300-400. So the actual cost of the fine is closer to £400-500 which is the rent for the mont…
Accumulating enough points results in suspension of your licence, it's not only about insurance costs.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40862975
I personally am aware of many people that were speeding at well over 100mph. When they went to the majestrate they were let off with 6 points. People get away with things that should get them a suspension all the time.
I once saw speed cameras as "un-sporting" until travelling elsewhere in the world where they are commonplace. In those countries, it seems like everyone just drives the speed limit. If the point of speed enforcement is to, you know, ensure that everyone is going the speed limit or slower, they're awesome. Norway's system of timed speed cameras are particularly wonderful -- they simply photograph a car and then photog…
My state in Australia have heavy, heavy fines, even compared to the rest of Aus. It doesn't reduce the amount of poor driving but speeding at least is unambiguous. There is no grey area. If the speed limit is 60kmph then you will get booked for exceeding it by 5kmph, and the only reason you get that 5kmph leeway is to account for camera calibration and some grace for speedometer calibration. They would ping you at 61…
> Most of this is automated, so you may find out you were suspended by getting pulled over before the letter arrives. It's all very strict.
Amusingly naive, everyone with a company car isn't fussed in the slightest. You can speed all you want and it will never get pinned on a single person, accounting pays the fee and that's it. Ever wonder why tradies speed so much?
Even for the rest of us demerit point sharing is rampant and commonplace, there's people on gumtree selling this as a service.
It's how it is mate.
The problem for me is that they are put at places where people tend to speed, and that is often because it is a major road running through a village. Instead of building the proper infrastructure to allow traffic to pass through we just slow it down.
My second problem with speed enforcement is it has caused a shift in policing. Speeding is an absolute and so is cheap to police and prosecute so gets 100% of the enforcement effort, ignoring tailgating, undertaking, lane hogging, lane indiscipline...etc. All of this can be just as serious, and I feel (as a regular driver of some of the UKs busiest roads) are getting worse. I would much prefer to have a police officer in a car enforcing the rules than any fixed speed camera
I think society will soon discover that a certain % of rule breaking is absolutely necessary for it to function. My car has a speed limiter, radio and a computer. Imagine a near future where speed limits are sent via radio then enforced by the car computer. No more infringement!
If a law is bad when enforced, then the law needs to be changed, not the enforcement. Arbitrary enforcement leads to discrimination and corruption. Regarding the speed limit, I think the laws are just finde and should simply be enforced.
Useful as a rule of thumb but it's not always true. Models are never perfect, the map is not the territory. We are constantly figuring out what our shared values are, and it's a moving target. And the body of law itself is a complex beast with its own surprising dynamics. It's part of an ecosystem. You can't wave away its complexity with such a simplistic ideal.
A given law may be 'bad' (regrettable, even draconian/immoral) when enforced in certain cases, and yet it may also be unfeasible to change that law to add those cases as exceptions. This is why the law gives judges flexibility on sentencing, for example.
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If a law is bad when enforced, then the law needs to be changed, not the enforcement. Arbitrary enforcement leads to discrimination and corruption. Regarding the speed limit, I think the laws are just finde and should simply be enforced.
I think the concern is not so much a desire for arbitrary enforcement as it is a fear of perfect enforcement at all times. I think some degree of freedom is a fundamental need of the human being, even from the rules we set for ourselves. We don't actually want all of our laws to be perfectly enforced all of the time, for a lot of reasons. For one thing, the laws themselves are unlikely to ever be perfect, even if per…
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What privacy implications? The government already knows who you are, they processed your vehicle registration and issued that license plate specifically to make your vehicle publicly identifiable. Are you also terrified that just anyone can read your house numbers or the address on your mailbox?
The problem is automated and centralised surveillance. The government can aggregate this data and build movement patterns on all citizens. They might not do it, but they could. And once something to exert power is possible, It'll be done eventually.
> The privacy implications of taking a photograph of everyone, process "who they are" (reg plate, generally driven by family member) is horrifying.
I once saw speed cameras as "un-sporting" until travelling elsewhere in the world where they are commonplace. In those countries, it seems like everyone just drives the speed limit. If the point of speed enforcement is to, you know, ensure that everyone is going the speed limit or slower, they're awesome. Norway's system of timed speed cameras are particularly wonderful -- they simply photograph a car and then photog…
I’ll assume you aren’t in the U.K. (which this article is about), because the U.K. system is almost exactly as you describe! > Norway's system of timed speed cameras are particularly wonderful -- they simply photograph a car and then photograph it again many kilometers later. If you get there too soon, then at some point, you must have been speeding. Uk has a combination of: * Average speed cameras (as per the Norway…