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YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

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Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#321

We are very fortunate to have the algorithms, employees & management of Youtube/Google watching out for us. We're not intelligent enough to view a video and decide for ourselves what is fact v. propaganda v. entertainment. Hopefully some day we will have the same protections the CCP gives its people with even more content moderation. Thank you Google - you're the nanny the American people and the world always hoped f…

Once again a thread about censorship invites comments that ignore the nuance of the situation. Having companies dictate what information is widely accessible is dangerous for democracy. Having the sitting president make completely baseless claims in an effort to delegitimize the results of an election because it didn’t go his way is also dangerous for democracy. That’s what we call a tricky situation. We don’t have a…

No there is no easy solution generally.

You tube has no obligation to carry anything. It has nothing to do with "Free Speech", that would be a very lazy characterisation.

Companies like Google can control what is easily available and discoverable next to the cat videos etc but they do not "...dictate what information is widely accessible"

Any website or even more so IP address is widely accessible. Why should Google sit around and let experienced psy ops operators have free reign on their platform?

So there is a easy solution for Google - remove it.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#322

"YouTube said Wednesday it will start removing any content uploaded to its platform that contains allegations of widespread fraud or errors" So the US election was 100% error free? Got it, YouTube. I still have friends whose votes weren't counted according to their state's Secretary of State website. I'm not even sure what's the point: Supressing misleading info prior to the election is one thing, but the election is…

> So the US election was 100% error free? I think you're willfully misreading in order to score some rhetorical point, but just in case: Read that as "widespread (fraud or errors)". No one is alleging that the election was error-free, only that it was free from widespread error.

We humans may know that, but do the algorithms know the difference between a video describing one voting error and a video describing multiple cases of errors?

It's not a rhetorical point because if you upload a YouTube video with controversial keywords, a banner appears below the video with clarification which may or may not be relevant. I once watched a Rammstein music video and was scratching my head as to why a banner appeared about the Apollo Space Program, as if Rammstein was a conspiracy theory and not a fictional music video. If this same algorithm is being used to censor, a lot of innocent videos will be deleted.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#324
Youtube is the problem. Anyone can put whatever shit they want online, which is fine in itself, but put your snake oil on Youtube and Google's Skynet will expertly find rubes to sell for you and show it to them.

But on a few occasions, like this one, advertisers get nervous.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#325

We are very fortunate to have the algorithms, employees & management of Youtube/Google watching out for us. We're not intelligent enough to view a video and decide for ourselves what is fact v. propaganda v. entertainment. Hopefully some day we will have the same protections the CCP gives its people with even more content moderation. Thank you Google - you're the nanny the American people and the world always hoped f…

Once again a thread about censorship invites comments that ignore the nuance of the situation. Having companies dictate what information is widely accessible is dangerous for democracy. Having the sitting president make completely baseless claims in an effort to delegitimize the results of an election because it didn’t go his way is also dangerous for democracy. That’s what we call a tricky situation. We don’t have a…

What if his claims were true and this happened? Wouldn't that be a tricky situation too? I mean, really tricky?

At the same time I think Youtube has the right to do this (and whatever they want, basically). Currently there are no real alternatives to Youtube, that is the problem.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#326
post #23

This is an enormous overreach. > Given that, we will start removing any piece of content uploaded today (or anytime after) that misleads people by alleging that widespread fraud or errors changed the outcome of the 2020 U.S. Presidential election, in line with our approach towards historical U.S. Presidential elections. For example, we will remove videos claiming that a Presidential candidate won the election due to…

> These same claims are being made in ongoing court cases.

Anyone can make any crazy claim they want in a lawsuit. I could probably sue someone today claiming the earth was flat or Elvis is still alive if I wanted to. Do we reserve judgment on these topics just because someone sued someone else over them?

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#327
Holy shit, this thread is scary. Sure, there are some implications worth discussing based on this news. However, the number of people directly posting doubts on the election results is way more concerning and shows that Youtube might be doing a good thing in this case.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#328
An interesting step to be sure, and the responses here reflect similar sentiments elsewhere (some think it's censorship, some think it's stewardship, and still others think it's Google's pool so they get to decide who is allowed into it)

I find the meta question fascinating. That question is "If you have a tool that can influence millions any way you choose to influence them, what role should the state play in regulating that tool?"

With things like, say, nuclear weapons. It seems really easy to say "I don't want just anyone in the country to be able to go out and buy a nuclear weapon and possibly put their entire city at risk of annihilation if they decide to set it off!" And in many conversations we get to that perspective because the "innocent" bystanders who would be killed by this act have no way to realistically protect themselves from that threat. Thus we accept that the state, which has community support to protect the community, is given the right to say who can and who cannot "own" a nuclear weapon. It isn't even all that controversial in the general public even though there will always be people who take the position that the 2nd amendment "right to bear arms" does not exclude any "arms" it's a blanket right. And yet for most people, keeping nuclear weapons out of the hands of just any individual seems a reasonable limitation.

But what about media? We have seen first hand the destructive effects of coordinated campaigns of disinformation. In the hands of a skilled operator, millions of individuals can be manipulated into actions that they would not have contemplated. Whether it is for giving power to criminals, or killing themselves and their children by drinking cyanide laced Kool-aid.

When it becomes possible for a small group to do great harm to a much larger "innocent" group, what is the right action to take? What consensus does the community come to which supports governance for everyone versus rights for the individual?

I believe it to be a much more complex question than simply "censorship" / "no censorship" and letting individuals protect themselves from these sorts of operators. Just as I believe it is unreasonable for individuals to be held responsible for protecting themselves from one of their neighbors possibly setting off a nuclear weapon, or spraying them with a machine gun.

From what I have read, in the US the sense of "justice" is tied to the perpetrators of an act of harm being suitably punished for that act. And I certainly feel harmed by the egregious disinformation that has made my relationship with my parents much more difficult. But how do I get justice for that harm? I really don't have a good sense of the right and just answer here.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#329

We are very fortunate to have the algorithms, employees & management of Youtube/Google watching out for us. We're not intelligent enough to view a video and decide for ourselves what is fact v. propaganda v. entertainment. Hopefully some day we will have the same protections the CCP gives its people with even more content moderation. Thank you Google - you're the nanny the American people and the world always hoped f…

Once again a thread about censorship invites comments that ignore the nuance of the situation. Having companies dictate what information is widely accessible is dangerous for democracy. Having the sitting president make completely baseless claims in an effort to delegitimize the results of an election because it didn’t go his way is also dangerous for democracy. That’s what we call a tricky situation. We don’t have a…

I do not believe there was widespread election fraud, but having a private company control what information people are allowed to see & hear is also dangerous. YouTube has the right to do this as a private company, but it's also a dangerous precedent.

I think a better approach, instead of broad censorship, would be simply inserting warning statement(s), at least in front of the material. They already stick in ads, so the tech is there. That way, the material is still available, but with warnings. We "show but warn" with many other materials (sexually explicit, violence, etc.) - I think that would be the much better way to handle such materials.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#330
If there is to be toleration in the world, one of the things taught in schools must be the habit of weighing evidence, and the practice of not giving full assent to propositions which there is no reason to believe true. For example, the art of reading the newspapers should be taught. The schoolmaster should select some incident which happened a good many years ago, and roused political passions in its day. He should then read to the school-children what was said by the newspapers on one side, what was said by those on the other, and some impartial account of what really happened. He should show how, from the biased account of either side, a practised reader could infer what really happened, and he should make them understand that everything in newspapers is more or less untrue. The cynical scepticism which would result from this teaching would make the children in later life immune from those appeals to idealism by which decent people are induced to further the scheme of scoundrels.

--Bertrand Russell

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