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Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

npr.org

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Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#321

Post by antisyzygy »

ekianjo wrote: post #30
patwolfe wrote: post #18

Really disappointing to see the "Well, what did you expect?" comments already. Just because companies have been trying to prevent organization of their labor for over a century doesn't mean it isn't still messed up now. It's easy to say that it's just the way the world works from your desk, the people who are forced to work in Amazon's warehouses with terrible working conditions don't have that luxury.

> the people who are forced to work in Amazon's warehouses with terrible working conditions don't have that luxury. Who is forced to work in Amazon's warehouses? Is Amazon rounding up people with guns everyday to make them work there?

Please. It's the only option available to a lot of people anymore especially with COVID shutdowns but it's part of a larger shift to a knowledge-economy. There aren't many jobs for unskilled workers anymore and getting skills is too expensive for the poor. Ignoring that reality is ridiculous and only proves you don't argue in good faith.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#322

Post by sudosysgen »

mrtksn wrote: post #315
sudosysgen wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that being in a "not-union" isn't a protected class, so you could probably get fired for it after your employer sent the "not-Pinkertons" to do some intel. To prevent this, you'd have to get your "not-Union" to either have huge solidarity, or lobby the government to make that a protected class. Maybe if you went for the first you could make a song about it, how about "Solidarity not-for-finite-periods-of…

Why would they fire or investigate you? It’s not like you’re organizing strikes or anything like that. You are simply benefiting of the same knowledge that companies have to have a fairer deal.

Because you leveling the playing field is a net loss for them. Companies like to use their information and coordination advantage, and exploit it to their benefit.

It's why some companies will try to find ways to fire you if you share your salary.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#323

Post by grayhatter »

glaugh wrote: post #256
patwolfe wrote: post #18

Really disappointing to see the "Well, what did you expect?" comments already. Just because companies have been trying to prevent organization of their labor for over a century doesn't mean it isn't still messed up now. It's easy to say that it's just the way the world works from your desk, the people who are forced to work in Amazon's warehouses with terrible working conditions don't have that luxury.

“What did you expect?” is my least favorite conversational trope (it’s more disappointing on HN because in general I have higher expectations here, but it’s common everywhere). On the surface it sounds smart and world-weary. As an actual part of a conversation, whether something is expected is pretty orthogonal to whether, say, something would ideally be done about it. I suppose it is relevant to whether something ma…

I love the common tropes, you only have to learn a single response that allows you to control the narrative.

> What did you expect?

Well, geez, I don't know basic human decency probably? Are we all so numb to asshattery that we're not surprised or upset when we learn about someone using power to hurt or control the little guy?

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#324

Post by ardy42 »

EarthIsHome wrote: post #223
_wldu wrote: post #145

In 1920 Appalachia, coal companies owned all the land, the homes and stores. They also paid workers with their own special money (that was useless everywhere else). The security companies they hired where armed and violent towards miners and their families. https://explorepartsunknown.com/west-virginia/coal-minings-d... Today, people can tour these old towns and learn the history of how the coal companies trapped and…

That "special money" had a name called "the scrip" [0]. Here's a really short video of what used to be a "company town" in Appalachia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBCxG_SCnQE One of the host's grand dad was paid in scrip until the 1970s. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip

> Here's a really short video of what used to be a "company town" in Appalachia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBCxG_SCnQE

That's a great video.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#325

Post by mrtksn »

sudosysgen wrote: post #322
mrtksn wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they fire or investigate you? It’s not like you’re organizing strikes or anything like that. You are simply benefiting of the same knowledge that companies have to have a fairer deal.

Because you leveling the playing field is a net loss for them. Companies like to use their information and coordination advantage, and exploit it to their benefit. It's why some companies will try to find ways to fire you if you share your salary.

I guess they’re free to try fight it. It doesn’t mean it’s helpless case. Measures and countermeasures, businesses as usual.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#326

Post by WC3w6pXxgGd »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #117
jamiequint wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You actually believe that Amazon has editorial control over NPR and specifically exerted that leverage to make this article incoherent?

One of the common threads in media critiques like Manufacturing Consent and Hate, Inc. is that direct editorial control is not necessary in order to promote your agenda. Control of money and access, along with ideological indoctrination of journalists at elite universities, is all that's needed. See also my comment below about NPR listenership and trust in Amazon as an institution.

Are you unironically referencing Manufacturing Consent?

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#327

Post by ardy42 »

jamiequint wrote: post #95
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > We need to note that Amazon is an NPR funder. The original Motherboard article [0] is extensive. The NPR version is deliberately incoherent. [0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dp3yn/amazon-leaked-reports...

You actually believe that Amazon has editorial control over NPR and specifically exerted that leverage to make this article incoherent?

>>> We need to note that Amazon is an NPR funder.

> You actually believe that Amazon has editorial control over NPR and specifically exerted that leverage to make this article incoherent?

You don't have to have editorial control to have influence.

For instance: how smart would it be for you to complain about your employer in public forums under your own name? People call that "biting the hand that feeds you." So even if you have a legitimate grievance or have witnessed clearly unethical behavior with your employer, maybe you decide to keep quiet because you need the money from your job.

Your employer just influenced what you write without having any editorial control over you.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#328

Post by Aerroon »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #117
jamiequint wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You actually believe that Amazon has editorial control over NPR and specifically exerted that leverage to make this article incoherent?

One of the common threads in media critiques like Manufacturing Consent and Hate, Inc. is that direct editorial control is not necessary in order to promote your agenda. Control of money and access, along with ideological indoctrination of journalists at elite universities, is all that's needed. See also my comment below about NPR listenership and trust in Amazon as an institution.

You just need to have influence over who hires the journalists. If they like you then they'll hire people who will probably also like you.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#329

Post by syshum »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #207
dalbasal wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect a history lesson, but honestly, I think old comrade tales are not helpful. I don't mean that it's irrelevant, strictly, but we hear more of these than 2020 tales, 2020 strategies and concerns. This is 100 year later, and despite of how many union die hards see it... most workers aren't likely to buy int a centuries long struggle. They're interested in their own lives & jobs.

I think the main points are: 1. Their own struggles aren't new: companies have been trying to fuck workers over since time immemorial, and 2. There is a well-known solution to these problems: unions. Are you working 16 hours a day, barely able to afford rent + food + utilities, and slipping further into debt every day? It doesn't have to be that way , and we have a really good idea, based on historical facts, about h…

you do know that Appalachia is still the poorest area in the US, and the unions did not fix the economic problems.

yes it provided the employees that were still employed with greater protections, but it is not the utopia you seem to believe it is

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#330

Post by ardy42 »

glaugh wrote: post #256
patwolfe wrote: post #18

Really disappointing to see the "Well, what did you expect?" comments already. Just because companies have been trying to prevent organization of their labor for over a century doesn't mean it isn't still messed up now. It's easy to say that it's just the way the world works from your desk, the people who are forced to work in Amazon's warehouses with terrible working conditions don't have that luxury.

“What did you expect?” is my least favorite conversational trope (it’s more disappointing on HN because in general I have higher expectations here, but it’s common everywhere). On the surface it sounds smart and world-weary. As an actual part of a conversation, whether something is expected is pretty orthogonal to whether, say, something would ideally be done about it. I suppose it is relevant to whether something ma…

> “What did you expect?” is my least favorite conversational trope (it’s more disappointing on HN because in general I have higher expectations here, but it’s common everywhere).

> On the surface it sounds smart and world-weary. As an actual part of a conversation, whether something is expected is pretty orthogonal to whether, say, something would ideally be done about it.

Yeah, it's pretty much just a lazy dismissal of the issue, and maybe even an attempt to jam up the discussion.

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