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Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

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Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#321

Post by ogre_codes »

devwastaken wrote: post #54

Apple won't support it, therefore support and maintenance will be working around apples proprietary hardware and special drivers. Linux is not meant to live in that environment, I'd argue bettering support for other OEM's is a more fruitfull goal.

> Linux is not meant to live in that environment,

Linux is like the cockroach of the OS world, it can do just fine in any environment. After the apocalypse, I'm pretty sure the OS the cockroaches are going to use.

If it hadn't been for reverse engineered proprietary drivers, Linux would have never gotten to the point it is now.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#322

Post by melq »

comex wrote: post #207
melq wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Not locking the bootloader doesn't mean they're going to embrace running other operating systems. As a long time mac user, the idea of them supporting other operating systems seems really un-Appley to me. What happens if I put linux on my (still under warranty) macbook and then have to take it in to an Apple store for some reason?

Presumably the same thing that happens if you put Linux on an Intel MacBook, which has always been possible. I don’t know what that is exactly. But in my experience, Apple does tell everyone to back up their data before handing a computer in for repair; there’s no guarantee the computer will come back with disk contents intact. So assuming you’re backed up, you could just wipe the drive and temporarily install macOS…

It's certainly possible, but I don't think it's supported. I'm not just talking about hardware issues, but like general support. As far as I know, if you have a mac under warranty/applecare you can book an appointment with a 'genius' to help you with any sort issue, hardware, software, or even just general instruction on how to do stuff.

I would guess that if you showed up with a mac under warranty but with a custom OS installed, they would boot macos in some fashion and run whatever their diagnostic tool is, and if the hardware checks out they'll tell you to buzz off.

I guess my point overall is that Apple seems to be pretty intent on curating and supporting a specific user experience with their products (which is a big part of their pre-occupation with controlling everything top to bottom in the first place), and supporting 3rd party OS's seemed at odds with that.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#323

Post by skunkworker »

One thing that's stumped me on the Apple M1 chip design is how they are getting consistent timing on their different kinds of cores, with the layout being so asymmetric. Like the 8 core GPU, the Icestorm cores, the neural engine cores.

Or is the fact that the physical distance is so close with the newer process that a small timing delay doesn't matter any more.

If the firestorm cores are laid out correctly, those make sense to be symmetrical.

https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16226/M1.png

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#324

Post by rowanG077 »

bigbubba wrote: post #184
rowanG077 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly you need to compromise significantly on speed and form factor. It's simply not practical for me to do that.

No computers available in the years preceding the present were practical for you? I doubt that.

Not in a 13 inch form factor.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#325

Post by jseliger »

gaul wrote: post #187

I maintain mbpfan and have contributed to a few other Linux on Mac tools. Linux on Mac is not worth the effort. I ran Ubuntu on a 2011 MacBook Air and now run Fedora on a 2014 MacBook Air. There were several papercuts even with these relatively open models where it took a while to get suspend, trackpad, fan, webcam, wifi, etc. working properly. You will need to use binary drivers for the latter two features and some…

I'd suspect, though, that most Linux people who considered running it on Apple hardware just shrugged and picked very similar PC hardware instead.

Apple's m1 computers have no PC analogue and may not for some time. I've not used one but it appears they really are different, and better, than anything else in their class.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#326

Post by eyelidlessness »

cookiengineer wrote: post #316
freehunter wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>owner would make it incompatible two seconds after they would smell competition We're talking about Apple, right? The company that made an entire software platform called Bootcamp, specifically to enable a competitor's OS to run on their hardware? A company who custom-developed drivers specifically to be compatible with a competitor's OS on their own hardware? You're talking about that Apple? The one who said they w…

Yes, we are talking about that Apple which integrated soft fuses that can be triggered remotely, and will brick your device physically. We are talking about that Apple which sued a recycling vendor in Canada because they recycled devices instead of trashing them. We are talking about that Apple which bribed judges in the US to deny its endusers the right to repair. We are talking about that Apple which removed even t…

> bribed judges

...

Say more...?

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#327

Post by chrismorgan »

deaddodo wrote: post #301
saati wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it run sway?

I haven't attempted sway specifically, but I don't see why not. The OS installs with nouveau on wayland by default, and runs perfectly fine (at a ~60-70% performance level, based on Linux/Proton gaming FPS). I use GNOME on Xorg, so have no issues with the proprietary driver.

Looks like that’d be the GTX 1650 Ti? That’s of the NV160 family, and per https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/FeatureMatrix.html (assuming it’s up to date), that lacks all 2D and video acceleration, and power management. That sounds rather like a mediocre toy for a large fraction of users. And Wayland needs Nouveau, because the NVIDIA proprietary driver is a hostile environment that does everything its own way rather than the way everyone else does things.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#328

Post by kergonath »

woahAcademia wrote: post #262
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main reason to run hackintosh as far as I know is to write software for macOS or iOS. I suspect a lot of Hackintoshes users do so because they like using macOS day-to-day, but don't see anything appealing in Apple's hardware lineup. I'm one of them.

What makes MacOS good?

UNIX with good taste and a decent UI.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#329

Post by doctor_eval »

toyg wrote: post #259
spacedcowboy wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They dropped anything GNU because of the GPLv3, which was specifically designed to stop what the authors saw as exploitation of others' work. I can see both sides here - the viral nature of GPLv3 is anathema to a company like Apple, so simply walking away was inevitable; and people were exploiting loopholes in the GPLv2 (I have no idea whether Apple was, but there are documented cases of others doing it).

It's just one datapoint - there are plenty more. Simply speaking, when they are the underdog and have to attract developers, they open up; and when they don't need it, they close doors. That's just what they do, it's a perfectly rational strategy (if cynical). They are hardly the only ones at this game, Microsoft does it too. I am just pointing out that promises of openness with Apple typically come with an expiry da…

Apple and Microsoft have never pretended to be “open” and their behaviour is quite predictable - Apple most of all. You might not like their behaviour but they haven’t tried to trick anyone.

Contrast with Google and the infamous tweet about Android:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Arubin/status/27808662429

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#330

Post by microtonal »

koyote wrote: post #304
hehetrthrthrjn wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally good design and user-centered design (but that's being eroded with every new release) along with attention to detail. Small examples: you can scroll a window without having to click on it to make it active, applications don't refer to files using paths but file ids instead so you can generally move files around a disk while they are open without things breaking.

The scrolling behaviour also exists in Windows and in Linux. I believe (if I understand what you mean correctly) that the file system behaviour is also a Linux thing. Deleting a file that is open is completely fine in Linux. I think UX between the three OSs is almost completely a matter of habit and familiarity these days. I for one can't see how anyone can be productive with the (what I believe is abysmal) window ma…

file system behaviour is also a Linux thing

It's required by POSIX, so all modern UNIX-like systems have this behavior:

When the file's link count becomes 0 and no process has the file open, the space occupied by the file shall be freed and the file shall no longer be accessible. If one or more processes have the file open when the last link is removed, the link shall be removed before unlink() returns, but the removal of the file contents shall be postponed until all references to the file are closed.

https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/u...

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