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‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

nytimes.com

321–330 of 717 posts

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#321
post #305

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

I'm glad you spoke up, and maybe I and others should've. There are some kinds of topics that I can immediately guess will invite certain kinds of comments on HN, and I've learned to just take a deep breath and ignore them. (If it gets really bad, I go catch up on that other Web site that does over-the-top criticism of HN, so that I don't feel like the only one.) On rare occasions, I've tried to engage some of the, bu…

> I go catch up on that other Web site that does over-the-top criticism of HN, so that I don't feel like the only one

Which is that, if you can share?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#322
post #250

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

When accusations of racism are being thrown around carelessly and people are having their reputations destroyed and lives turned upside down because of a single thing they (allegedly) said, the potential future targets of these accusations realize that the stakes just became much higher for them. So why would they support and enable those that might come for their own heads next? It's rational to be antagonistic in s…

I understand that people feel threatened by accusations of racism, but we should subject those feelings to the same scrutiny that fear of vaccines, fear of blood transfusions, fears of child kidnapping, fear of having our child trafficked for sex, and various fears of violence are subjected to. If we look at data, we find that many of our fears are not calibrated to probability of occurrence or even to the expected value of the outcome -- they're instead calibrated to media coverage.

Two guys and a gal were fired after Donglegate. People's lives are being turned upside-down in many ways by social media, whether its discussion of justice issues or sex tapes or your dog or your toast going viral. Discriminatory behavior has long been documented in employment, housing sales and rentals, financial services, etc -- just today I was reading about the riots in Cicero in 1951, when a mob of thousands attacked an apartment building in Cicero, IL into which a black couple attempted to move -- and now some of this behavior is being caught on video, unsurprisingly.

Sure, you can be antagonistic, but as doctors have discovered with malpractice, it's actually more productive and more optimized on a financial level to be gracious. Doctors who are honest and express sympathy and empathy, with an apology [1], when things go poorly are far less likely to be sued for malpractice (more links in linked article). Similarly, when you'd done something that appears to someone else to be racist, why not simply apologize (even something like, "Sorry, that was not my intention!") and then try to do better, even ask how you can do better?

If you are committed to an ideology of white supremacy, then of course this doesn't make sense as a next move. But if you're a normal person who just does things that in retrospect do come across as thoughtless or uninformed, like asking your Asian-American colleague where they're really really from and complimenting them on their English, or telling your Black colleague that you're surprised at how articulate they are, or giving a nine-year-old female chess genius a doll when she just wants a chess set... why not just apologize and do better next time?

The world is made of imperfect people who are all gonna die anyway. Most likely no one will care about your reputation in 100 years, even your great-grandkids (I knew my great-grandparents and I only knew a bit about them). So use this time to actually do your part to make the world better -- why not? It will most likely make you feel better, feel you have more integrity, and you'll be happier.

[1] https://www.natlawreview.com/article/you-had-me-i-m-sorry-im...

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#323
Coinbase sucks for other reasons besides racism and libertarian ideals that suddenly are complacent with authoritarianism when it involves property law. Ask any libertarian like Brian Armstrong if they want to defund the police. Coinbase believes everyone should have equal access to an un-regulated digital Las Vegas, despite the understanding that humans have irrational behaviors associated with gambling (i.e. the sunk-cost fallacy).

Bitcoin NOT Coinbase.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s with the wall of text? Violence isn’t justified regardless of who’s doing it

> What’s with the wall of text? Because, if you'd read it, it's much more nuanced than you're making it out to be. I felt an exploration might be interesting. You clearly disagree. > Violence isn’t justified regardless of who’s doing it. Yes, it is. If someone comes at you with a knife, you're justified in a violent response. Period. I doubt even a pacifist monk would disagree. Where things get more interesting is wh…

Quoting from your downstream posts for which HN is blocking replies:

> The job is in fact risky, which is why the profession is so highly regarded.

Police work doesn't even break the top ten most dangerous careers in the US. Landscaping workers are more likely to die on the job than police officers.[0]

Police work is just not that dangerous.

[0] https://www.workandmoney.com/s/most-dangerous-jobs-29090b32c...

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#325
post #56

> One Black employee said her manager suggested in front of colleagues that she was dealing drugs and carrying a gun, trading on racist stereotypes. Another said a co-worker at a recruiting meeting broadly described Black employees as less capable. Still another said managers spoke down to her and her Black colleagues, adding that they were passed over for promotions in favor of less experienced white employees. The…

So do you believe that all the white employees just laughed about this? Did any of them corroborate the allegations? I work at a FAANG and a massive percentage of employees are rabidly anti-racist, and wouldn't stand for anything like that. Are coinbase employees just cut from a different cloth?

It seems possible that a much smaller company could have a sizable number of employees who claim to be anti-racist, but fail to behave that way in practice. Particularly one with a concentration of libertarian "crypto bros" who are often at odds with employees who might be described as "rabidly anti-racist".

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this hard to imagine without someone getting reprimanded. Not disbelieving the person's quote, but not accepting it as fact either. Seems like it would be easy to get corroborating witnesses for a situation that inappropriate. The only group I've seen it be permissible to make stereotyped observations about in the last decade in an SF tech office is european/indian/chinese workers. FWIW I don't think that's ok…

A lot of people traffic in blatant stereotypes in the guise of some kind of positive statement, which makes reprimands less likely. I once had a speaker tell us - in a diversity seminar! - about specific racial groups he thinks are too timid to speak up for themselves.

I think it’s much less an issue with people who have relocated and spent a few years adapting to us, but to succeed with foreign cultures you have to know how directly they prefer to communicate. Dave Barry tells this story:

(Beth) “… and then we want to take a plane from Point A to Point B.”

(Japanese travel agent) “I see. You want to take a plane?” “Yes.”

“From Point A?” “Yes.”

“To Point B?” “Yes.”

“Ah.” “Can we do that?”

“Perhaps you would prefer to take a train.” “No, we would prefer to take a plane.”

“Ah-hah. You would prefer to take a plane?” “Yes. A plane.”

“I see. From Point A?”

This mystified his wife but apparently between Japanese this is virtually screaming “THERE IS NO PLANE, YOU ZITBRAIN!”

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#327
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That behavior (passing over an employee due to their skin color) is not only problematic, it is against the law. Did the editorial show that Coinbase is engaging in illegal discrimination practices? No, but they sure implied it. Would it be problematic to encourage diverse representations to show up for company photos, if you did not ignore them for advancement? On its own, I think that's just common sense, and takin…

The comment I replied to appears to have been substantially edited in the time since I've replied to it. Sure. You can: * Not specifically require Black employees to relocate to different cities while giving non-Black employees the opportunity to work out out whatever the nearest office is. * Treat Black employees respectfully in meetings. * Not allow people who manage Black employees to mock them for being drug deal…

No edit, I just replied to you in my previous comment.

Are you under the impression that Coinbase makes Work-From-Home decisions based on the skin-color of their employees?

If yes (which it seems like to me), I'd like to learn more about that, and your reasoning. Am I oblivious to modern work-place racism? Imperceptive? Naive? Defending vile racists? I'd like to reconsider those questions on a more informed ground. My (and your) view kinda hinges on that impression and its truth.

I can understand why Black employees would have that impression, but if it's not true, then I also see that as problematic.

> I am under the impression that Coinbase demanded that the Black employees of the compliance group relocate to PDX so that the whole group could work out of the same office, and then exempted a white worker in the same group from that requirement.

Did it matter for this demand that one group was Black and the other was white? Or did this just happened to be the unfortunate outcome, which is bad optics if you focus on skin color attributes, and such bad optics should be avoided?

I am still not too sure. Can you remove "Black" and "white" from your impression and still say the same thing, or is it essential to your impression, and telling of a problematic work environment?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#328
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article implies that a number of the Black people who left did so because the compliance division was relocated and they didn't want to relocate with it. It doesn't say how many people's decisions were influenced by annoying work crap that they interpreted as discrimination. This is a really dishonest article. It tries to lead one to believe things (e.g. that 15 Black people left Coinbase because they were belitt…

Well, the article starts from the premise that an abnormally large percentage of Coinbase's black employees left over a short period of time. It then uses a large body of circumstantial evidence to (pretty convincingly, in my opinion) portray the culture at Coinbase as hostile to employees of color. Not really sure how that's dishonest.

The article fails to mention the generous 4-6 month severance package that was being offered at the same time as the relocation of the division. Of course a bunch of employees will take the 6 months paid vacation over moving.

This is the level of dishonesty that I've come to expect from the NYT. Any fact that does not fit their narrative basically doesn't exist.

Better treatment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25233702

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#329
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For starters, they can publish the results of the external investigation they paid for, which is something other companies in similar situations have done. Then we can assess the credibility of that report. This seems pretty basic, so it's surprising to see people asking "what else can Coinbase do?".

That would probably violate privacy. It is unclear to me whether they can do that.

Whose privacy? Coinbase's?! They wouldn't be the first company to publicly publish an internal report (voluntary or not; such documents routinely go public via the justice system).

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#330

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

If you know zero Black people and work with zero Black people it’s very easy to come to the conclusion that there is no racism against Black people. If there was you’d see it!

So the lived experiences of actual black people when they speak up and straight up say ”this is happening to us” means....what, then, in comparison to actually having dealt with said racism personally?

If it’s hard to believe because you haven’t lived it, then is listening to the multitudes of people also not enough?

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