Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 427 posts

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#321

Post by GuB-42 »

pr0zac wrote: post #137
grawprog wrote: post #115

So, they're still culling fertilized eggs with males, they just do it before they hatch now. I guess it's a little more visually appealing to the public, but it literally changes nothing. The same number of chickens are still culled, they still get turned into animal feed. Honestly, what difference does it really make if male chickens are shredded and ground up into feed pre or post hatching? It's the same result in…

Eggs don't feel pain, live chicks do. For some people that is very important, it might not be for you but its a very clear difference.

That's why I'm wondering. I've seen chick shredding videos, and these machines are fast. You can't even see the killing process unless it is in slow motion: chicks just disappear and ground meat falls down the other side.

If the machine is working correctly, I'm not sure the chicks have time to process pain, we are close to the limits of what a nervous system is capable of.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#322

Post by novok »

addicted wrote: post #303
bayindirh wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I value ethics and empathy deeply but, I don't understand vegans and vegetarians. Their biggest line of defense is "animals are alive and they have feelings and senses, we abuse them for food". That's sadly right. And they implicitly say that "eating plants are OK because, plants are not animals and they're just happen to grow. They don't feel, they don't understand". On the contrary, there's a growing mountain of re…

I’m pretty sure vegetarians, or vegans for that matter, don’t need to defend themselves. Also, we evolved without living in stone structures and sewn clothes. I don’t see you asking people who wear jeans and tshirts to defend themselves. I’m neither, but you’re arguing a straw man version of what either vegetarianism or veganism is.

Vegans and vegetarians want to legislate meat eating away, and there is a lot of nutritional deficiencies and allergic reactions that come from vegan eating that carnivores / omnivores would want to avoid.

There is a big moralizing streak in veganism, and a lot of vegans are into it from ethical, moralizing or emotional reasons, which leads to activism and trying to ban, tax and reduce meat eating. We see where the puck is heading.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#323

Post by dzolob »

kempbellt wrote: post #268
dzolob wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gladly. I invite you to come to my country and see how farmers/maquila workers live, in what conditions do they work, who they work for and which populations most benefit from this farmers/workers living conditions. As I said before, empathy is a great quality to cultivate, and so does awareness.

I'm not sure you understand how citation works. A first-hand account of farmers' living conditions in your local area isn't a reliable source that shows that there are "whole continents where people are treated as commodities". Nor do I see how this specifically relates to the underlying topic of veganism. Perhaps you can link the two topics so that I can see the point you are making? > As I said before, empathy is a…

I don' see why you have to be rude, but since we are here, if you need citations from a prestigious peer review journal to acknowledge this fact, you need to read more, travel more, hell, just change the channel more.

The world bank defines people living below its poverty line as persons living in households where the total income is below 1.9 US dollars, and acknowledge 689 million people living there[0].

"At higher poverty lines, 24.1 percent of the world lived on less than $3.20 a day and 43.6 percent on less than $5.50 a day in 2017"[0]

I you had read carefully, you might have noticed that my response was to the questioning on treating people as commodities, and since we are now on rude territory, you appear to me to be living in a cozy bubble, and can use some new knowledge. In my country, México, 52.4 million people are estimated to be in poverty (7.4 mill in extreme poverty)[1]. In rural areas, 29% of the population (2013 data)[2] had food shortages so no, this is not anecdotal.

I could go all academic, citations included, and tell you where does the avocado you eat comes from, who controls its growth and in which situation the people who grow it live, but I think it’s easier for me and maybe life changing for you to take a trip to Michoacán and see it for your(anecdotal)self.

[0] https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/poverty/overview#:~:text=....

[1] https://www.coneval.org.mx/Medicion/Paginas/PobrezaInicio.as...

[2] https://www.coneval.org.mx/Informes/Evaluacion/Cruzada%20con...

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#324

Post by OscarCunningham »

isthatsoup wrote: post #296
shalmanese wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered if you could market this as "vegetarian chicken" under the rationale that eating it doesn't cause an increase in net animal death. It may be more expensive but plenty of things are sold as more expensive for the ethical version. At the end of the day, my suspicion is even most vegetarians don't like being confronted with the realities of egg production.

Nope, that's the same faulty reasoning people use to justify purchasing leather. As if making the killing of cows more economical is somehow a good thing, and acting like demand for the product itself isn't going to cause companies to act to meet it and increase net animal death. It's completely naive.

Right. Weirdly, buying leather actually causes more cows to be eaten (because increasing the profit available causes the price of beef to decrease).

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#325

Post by neuralRiot »

bayindirh wrote: post #125
JacobSuperslav wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News, where technology > empathy

I value ethics and empathy deeply but, I don't understand vegans and vegetarians. Their biggest line of defense is "animals are alive and they have feelings and senses, we abuse them for food". That's sadly right. And they implicitly say that "eating plants are OK because, plants are not animals and they're just happen to grow. They don't feel, they don't understand". On the contrary, there's a growing mountain of re…

Believe me that we have heard all the possible arguments against veganism including “plants feel pain too”, it’s not one or the other, livestock is fed plants, so you cause more suffering by eating them.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#326

Post by cronix »

bayindirh wrote: post #125
JacobSuperslav wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News, where technology > empathy

I value ethics and empathy deeply but, I don't understand vegans and vegetarians. Their biggest line of defense is "animals are alive and they have feelings and senses, we abuse them for food". That's sadly right. And they implicitly say that "eating plants are OK because, plants are not animals and they're just happen to grow. They don't feel, they don't understand". On the contrary, there's a growing mountain of re…

> On the contrary, there's a growing mountain of research revealing that plants can communicate, issue warnings about diseases and bug infestations.

The TV show Cosmos with Neil deGrasse Tyson discussed this "Mycelium Network" on Season 3/Episode 7, "The Search for Intelligent Life on Earth," that aired Nov. 17th. It was quite fascinating. It starts about the 5 minute mark.

https://www.fox.com/watch/78c4500e6b3b7bf2d9b9832ae23f79c7/

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#327

Post by mkolodny »

bayindirh wrote: post #125
JacobSuperslav wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News, where technology > empathy

I value ethics and empathy deeply but, I don't understand vegans and vegetarians. Their biggest line of defense is "animals are alive and they have feelings and senses, we abuse them for food". That's sadly right. And they implicitly say that "eating plants are OK because, plants are not animals and they're just happen to grow. They don't feel, they don't understand". On the contrary, there's a growing mountain of re…

From your line of reasoning, I'd guess that you have no moral issues with eating humans. If eating animals and plants is the same, then isn't eating non-human and human animals the same?

If you do have a moral problem with eating humans, then you probably have moral hierarchy - humans' lives are the most important, and every other life is less important.

Some vegetarians have a different moral hierarchy - animals' lives are most important, then plants' lives. You can value plants' lives, and treat plants with respect, and still decide that you're morally okay with eating plants.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#328

Post by cies »

slothtrop wrote: post #93
wpietri wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing's ever enough for vegans. That's a weird complaint on a site about eternal disruption, eternal improvement of things that are basically fine already. I'm an omnivore, and I'm comfortable with it. But that doesn't keep me from recognizing the ethical issues with killing and controlling other beings to survive. I really appreciate people pushing the envelope on this. If I could eat basically the same diet but…

> That's a weird complaint on a site about eternal disruption, eternal improvement of things that are basically fine already. I mean the subject matter is itself a disruption and improvement, which is being rejected. It is not the status quo. So I don't see that as analogous. > But that doesn't keep me from recognizing the ethical issues with killing and controlling other beings to survive. I also try to be cognizant…

Vegans are not necessarily asking for anything. They will simply buy products that no harm was done to animals for, given the choice. As a result they will buy more of the non-animal derived products. Some plant-meat/dairy/egg may be on the menu for vegans, but that's not what defines them.

Sure some vegan may voice their believe that "all animals should be wild", but not even this belief is shared among all vegans and not all are activists.

Your statement "it's never enough for vegans" has two sides for me. If someone abstains from animal derived products, vegans will generally think that's "enough". The mission and "required behavioral change" is very commonly agreed on by vegans (contrary to other movements). On the other hand, most vegans are very aware that pest control is not going away soon, and that fast modes of transport will cause some (mostly bugs) collateral harm. From this point of view you are right: there will always be some next frontier of harm reduction. It will never be enough.

For me there is a line between breeding domesticated animals, and the regretted harm caused to wild animals. I find the first appalling, where the latter is something I cannot reasonably go completely without (bugs on my windshield, pest control, etc.).

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#329

Post by chrisjarvis »

names_are_hard wrote: post #192
chrisjarvis wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi "If not you, then who?" - Hillel, first- century Jewish scholar "would you like some cheese with that whine?" - my mom

Nitpicking the Hillel quote, the message is correct but to prevent misinformation spreading on the web I feel like correcting. Hillel is quoted in the Mishna[0] as saying, "If I am not for me, who is for me? If I am for myself, what am I? If not now, when?"[1] If Hillel said "if not you, then who?" I have not found a source, but I believe this is a common interpretation of his first sentence. Then again, maybe he was…

I have no idea thanks for the extra information! it’s a quote I’ve always liked. When I googled who said it Hillel came up.

Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)

#330

Post by cies »

thelastwave wrote: post #310
kaycebasques wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a real vegan (not a meme about vegans that you saw from meat eaters) I can confidently tell you that "animals are alive and they have feelings and senses, we abuse them for food" is not my biggest line of defense. My biggest lines of defense are: * Dr. Kim Williams, former president of the American College of Cardiology, said "there are two kinds of cardiologists, vegans, and those who haven't read the data" * Ani…

How does the way we distribute meat create that much more carbon emission than distributing a comparable amount of plant based food?

Cooled storage/transport, waste (a lot of meat is wasted due to limited shelf life and the following regulations), distribution of feed, water usage, methane (like 4x worse than CO2 i believe), more plastic used in packaging.
Post reply on HN