Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#321

Post by withinboredom » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 11:43 PM UTC

spike021 wrote: post #287

missosoup wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I couldn't even afford a car until after graduating from university. > I was walking or taking public transportation everywhere prior to finally getting a car. I had to afford a car in order to be able to get to work when I got my first job. Taking public transport would be a 4 hour journey in each direction (assuming I get to each transit point on time, assuming everything arrives on time). I couldn't afford the c…

I think this discussion is becoming rather pointless for the overall discourse about this singular topic, so I'll just leave with this. >Having climbed from societal rock-bottom to a decent position in the tech industry, my mind is constantly blown by the fact that the average techie thinks their life is anything like what the vast majority of this planet are dealing with. I'm not sure what your point is supposed to…

> all of the above is unsafe

Humanity has a pretty substantial record of doing "unsafe" for the betterment of themselves, mankind, or just for giggles. The risks are well-known to themselves, who are you to suggest that they cannot manage those risks?

Some people manage it their entire lives, while others do not. However, I'd trust someone driving who is well aware of their boundaries over someone who is not aware, any day.

My wife fell asleep at the wheel once, I just reached over and kept the wheel straight while trying to wake her up. I hope cars can do that in the future, for those times that I'm not there. And for the record, she's one of those that has never fallen asleep before or gotten drowsy at the wheel.

> Having climbed from societal rock-bottom to a decent position in the tech industry

I've done this as well. I've gone to war, I've seen things you likely can't imagine without a bunch of CGI and special effects. Most of the tech world has no idea what "rock bottom" even means except through the view of Hollywood, and even that doesn't look all that bad from that angle.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#322

Post by withinboredom » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 11:50 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #285

Ancapistani wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very large number of people in the US have access to no public transit whatsoever - and as for sharing a car... that’s what they’re likely doing with their partner. One person uses it to go to work while the other is at home, probably caring for their children.

A very large number of people in the US have access to no public transit whatsoever - and as for sharing a car... that’s what they’re likely doing with their partner. One person uses it to go to work while the other is at home, probably caring for their children. How do all these hopelessly trapped families ever take their kids to things like medical appointments?

On days we had to do something like that, whomever was taking the child dropped the other off at work.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#323

Post by withinboredom » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 11:55 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

When I fall asleep at the wheel, I do it looking straight ahead with my eyes open; it freaks my wife out. My wife never lets me drive the long stretches unless we're talking the entire time. I don't think Tesla will help me here.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#324

Post by ericlewis » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 11:55 PM UTC

noelsusman wrote: post #139

On a related note, I often wonder how many Tesla owners are aware that their cars take images/video from the external cameras and send them back to Tesla. This happens remotely at any time and you have no idea when or if it has happened.

It’s opt in as the article outlines.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#325

Post by Silhouette » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 11:57 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #318

Silhouette wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, that like drunk driving, the person making the call doesn't always have the experience to know when they are impaired, or how close they are to falling asleep. Then they can follow the same rule as for overtaking: if in doubt, don't. It's not complicated. There is no way you are tired enough to be actually falling asleep without realising you're far too tired to be driving safely. It's not as if it's…

> There is no way you are tired enough to be actually falling asleep without realising you're far too tired to be driving safely. Except I was, and I did. And now I can recognize the signs that weren't obvious before, so I don't anymore. You're saying there's no way, and I'm giving you a concrete example of an instance. > It's not as if it's a close thing where one minute you're alert and driving responsibly and the…

I've been driving for decades, and I've had many of the problems other comments have mentioned that make life tough, and yet to my knowledge I have never fallen asleep at the wheel or caused any sort of accident. There certainly have been a few times when I was expecting to drive but clearly wasn't fit to and had to make other arrangements.

And, in the gentlest possible way, if you were unable to recognise that you were so tired that you were likely to fall asleep while driving and make another choice, you were demonstrably unfit to drive at that time. It might have been understandable, particularly if you were young and inexperienced, but you still shouldn't have driven at that time and your actions were still irresponsible and dangerous.

Anyway, I think I'm done with this discussion. There are several posters here who are literally arguing that it's OK to drive knowing that they are severely impaired and have a much greater risk than any normal person would of injuring or killing someone. I can't argue rationally against such an irresponsible and selfish position, and my blood pressure has probably gone through the roof reading all of these comments and thinking of all the people who would disagree with them but can't because they're dead.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#326

Post by fma » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 11:58 PM UTC

ericlewis wrote: post #324

noelsusman wrote: post #139

On a related note, I often wonder how many Tesla owners are aware that their cars take images/video from the external cameras and send them back to Tesla. This happens remotely at any time and you have no idea when or if it has happened.

It’s opt in as the article outlines.

Article talks about driver facing camera...not external.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#327

Post by Silhouette » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 11:59 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #319

Silhouette wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We weren't talking about merely being drowsy. We were talking about having a pattern of falling asleep at the wheel, and knowingly continuing to drive while unfit for that reason. It's right there in the top comment that started the thread.

Who said there was a pattern and people continuing to drive after it happened once?

It's right there in the top comment that started this whole thread.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#328

Post by pessimizer » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 12:00 AM UTC

missosoup wrote: post #304

spike021 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this discussion is becoming rather pointless for the overall discourse about this singular topic, so I'll just leave with this. >Having climbed from societal rock-bottom to a decent position in the tech industry, my mind is constantly blown by the fact that the average techie thinks their life is anything like what the vast majority of this planet are dealing with. I'm not sure what your point is supposed to…

> The moment you begin endangering other people's lives is the same moment that backgrounds, poorly-disadvantaged or not, become meaningless. Spoken life someone who never had to decide between rolling the 0.000001% chance dice on driving to work tired, and their kids going hungry or potentially getting taken away if they lose their job. People do what they need to do to survive and take care of their loved ones. Peo…

What if the person you kill is also a human being with a family and problems? Should they get a say in what you think is an acceptable risk?

Or should we just treat everybody we don't know as obviously spoiled people who live in a bubble of privilege, have nothing to lose, have never missed a meal, love no one and have no one who depends on them, and only have an opinion on what you do in order to feel superior to you and to humiliate you?

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#329

Post by therealx » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 12:01 AM UTC

irrational wrote: post #241

echelon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

> You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! So, I should never drive? Not OP, but I experience the same thing. Driving just makes me tired. I've tried running A/C at full cold, caffeine, loud music, audiobooks, etc. Nothing helps. The strange thing is, outside of driving I don't get tired or want to fall asleep except at bedtime. I don't drive when I'm drowsy. Driving make me drows…

Get a sleep study done! You may be surprised, and even without insurance, the at home sleep studies aren't too pricey (pro tip, you can usually plug in the unit to your computer and dumb a copy of the raw data before you return it to your dr)

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#330

Post by Silhouette » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 12:04 AM UTC

hnick wrote: post #307

8ytecoder wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car fatigue is real. The only way I avoid it is to be constantly scanning by moving my eyes around - side mirror, rear mirror, speed gauge, back to the road. Delay(5s). Repeat. It can happen to the best of us and when you realise it’s safer to pull to the side of the road. Unlike a DUI this neither voluntary nor reckless unless you ignore the warning signs and keep on driving.

Here in NSW we have the "Stop Revive Survive" campaign and Driver Reviver: https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/geared/your_driving_skills/stayin... It is drilled into us that we should stop every 2 hours regardless of how we feel. You cannot trust yourself to judge as by definition your judgment is impaired when tired, it's best to just stop and grab a free tea/coffee if you find one of their setups or even just pull over to…

We have similar public information campaigns in the UK as well: take a break at least every two hours and more frequently if you're driving under more draining conditions; if you're starting to feel tired then pull over as soon as possible, have a caffeinated drink and maybe take a short nap; and so on. At certain times of year, the big displays on major roads even display "don't drive tired" and "take a break" reminders.