Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What does this scenario represent that is _the actual problem_ of the matter? Among others: - Crippling depression for many of those who are jobless and living with their parents in a culture that is not exactly friendly to them. - An increased incidence of health issues that are correlated with depression and loneliness. - Decreased quality of life for elderly parents who need to support their children within the…
>Many of them don't want to be in the position they're in. I wonder what proportion. In some online circles, being a NEET is actually a bit of a badge of honor. In others (in fact, on both sides of the political spectrum), those working regular jobs (in particular low-paid jobs) are prejoratively referred to as wageslaves (or "wagie"). What's more, many hikikomori in Japan have developed pop-culture interests and spe…
Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents
321–330 of 354 posts
Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
Again. We're failing to address the "so what?" What does this scenario represent that is _the actual problem_ of the matter?
I suppose if you polled people in this situation, and just asked them, "Is this the life you want to live?", that would answer the your question. I don't know what the results would be, but I can guess that a large percentage of unemployed 30- and 40-somethings living with their parents would very much rather not be. Is it 10%, 35%, 65%? I'm guessing over 50% to be sure. You can argue that the society is set up wrong…
This is the wrong question. The real question is do you daily want to do the things it takes to have those things. So often a goal is made, but the person doesn't want to be the thing that makes them get the goal.
Eg: Run a marathon, but they loath the daily training and food discipline
eg2: Speak a language, but they dont want to do the practice or be vulnerable speaking to another person.
Jame clear says you have to want to daily be the person that ends up achieving
Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not true at all. Japanese Kanji comprise only a few thousand characters (~2000 being considered sufficient for functional literacy). Chinese has well over 50000 characters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters
All Traditional Chinese characters are valid in Japanese even if they're only used for names. Japanese also has kanji invented in Japan which are not valid in Chinese. There are currently 2136 jōyō (general use) kanji, which are the bare minimum you need to known to be considered literate, but if that's all you know you're going to spend a lot of time with a dictionary. In practice you need at least 3000 characters,…
1. “all traditional Chinese characters...” — The vast majority of these are only used in classical literature or historical documents. Furthermore, multiple times throughout Japanese history, certain Chinese characters (usually similar) have been merged into one character. This is one reason Japanese characters often have multiple ways to pronounce them, while Chinese characters typically only have one.
2. Joyo kanji 1 — This is hardly the “bare minimum” for basic literacy for daily life (which is maybe half that). Japanese kids learn about 1000 kanji (kyouiku) in elementary school and about 1000 more (the remaining joyo) in junior high school. JHS is the end of compulsory education in Japan. Daily life kanji are more in the kyouiku kanji. The JHS has some practical kanji, but it gets bookish and sometimes a bit obscure very quickly.
3. Joyo kanji 2 - Note that government documents can only use joyo kanji. Maybe they can use furigana if necessary for non-joyo. As a default, most of the press only uses joyo, and they definitely use furigana liberally.
4. Joyo kanji 3 - Given that I have used joyo kanji at one time or another that most of my Japanese friends and acquaintances did not know, I think that calling this a “bare minimum” needed to be considered literate is a bit harsh. That said, I don’t recall ever having stumped academics, K-12 teachers, doctors, or lawyers on any joyo kanji. So if you want to call it a bare minimum to be considered highly educated, then I would agree.
5. Joyo kanji 4 - No Japanese person I know who pretty much caps out at joyo kanji uses a dictionary very often — perhaps as much as an American would looking up relatively uncommon Latin or Greek words/terms.
6. From my experience, you need about 5k characters to read a newspaper in Chinese (that was around what I learned), while the 2k joyo were complete fine for Japanese. While I did/do look up words in both languages, they are either domain-specific words (where I often don’t know much about the domain in English, Chinese, or Japanese), or it is a scholarly flavor word. Note that I still look up words in English as well (thank you every George Will article ever).
I don’t have any links or sources readily available (I’m on my phone), but I am fairly certain that research on word and kanji frequency lists in these languages will support my numbers much more than they support yours.
Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
Again. We're failing to address the "so what?" What does this scenario represent that is _the actual problem_ of the matter?
> What does this scenario represent that is _the actual problem_ of the matter? Among others: - Crippling depression for many of those who are jobless and living with their parents in a culture that is not exactly friendly to them. - An increased incidence of health issues that are correlated with depression and loneliness. - Decreased quality of life for elderly parents who need to support their children within the…
Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents
#325>Under Katsube’s direction, Junko also enrolled in a program that helps shut-ins learn social skills by engaging in activities such as gardening, music, sports, and volunteering. America desperately needs this. I fear the rise of social media has caused more and more people to stay inside all day without interacting with any real humans. I've found Meetup to work very well for getting out of the house. I did find it…
Your fix for technology enabled social distance was more technology. I love it. Perhaps social media has done that to some people. But I still see my neighbors out in their garden, and even outside with musical instruments. My musical friends come over and play outside with me. I garden alone because socializing over everything is insane to me. I disagree there’s a real problem. Re: people living at home still. That…
Especially since a lot of that inheritance is going to be stakes in critical businesses that the heirs are in no way, shape, or form qualified to run.
Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your fix for technology enabled social distance was more technology. I love it. Perhaps social media has done that to some people. But I still see my neighbors out in their garden, and even outside with musical instruments. My musical friends come over and play outside with me. I garden alone because socializing over everything is insane to me. I disagree there’s a real problem. Re: people living at home still. That…
I agree with you, but I'm not sure we're aware of this problem as a society. People still think that people making 6 figures are the elite and cheer every time a progressive income tax targeting someone marginally richer than them is introduced by their government. They are not the enemy, they're not the people lobbying the government so their business can make extra millions or avoid paying taxes with loopholes. The…
Every single person in this country that makes more than $100,000 has outsize political clout and the capacity to change things for the better, and simply don't. Your retirement is more important, or your children's education, or your career. Fiddling while Rome burns.
"But the cost of living." What about it? Take a stand. You make $100k, $200k a year. Collapse the property value pyramid scheme with direct action. Throttle your mortgage payments. Throw out eviction notices. Hire gangbangers to protect your house when the police come to throw you out. Organize with your neighbors to build a series of self-governed mini-ethnostates based on the first two digits of your house addresses, where your trashed credit score and criminal record are meaningless.
Clearly I'm halfway joking. I'm not clever enough to come up with a real solution. But to act like making twice, thrice, quadruple the average household income as an individual still leaves you handcuffed is farcical. You all pay too much for necessities and you buy goods and services you don't need, and you use it to justify inaction while 2/3 of the rest of country languishes in sickness and poverty. Figure out what you're willing to sacrifice to make this better for everyone, gather it up into a big ball and catapult launch it at the walls of the establishment. If a few days off work and some posterboard can set cities ablaze, the power of someone with 5-6 figures to burn and the willingness to really do something substantial would be awesome indeed to behold.
And (completely serious this time) don't tell me that people with six-figure incomes don't donate to political campaigns because you do.
Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents
#327If they forced all the folks working sixty-hour weeks down to thirty, and hired the unemployed to fill the gaps, the country would be healthier.
What would that do to wages?
The idea that wages are driven by market forces is only half true. Someone has to pull the trigger on underpaying people who ought to be earning a piving wage.
Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
The participation rate is a really coarse measure. In Japan, it has increased mainly because among the younger generation, far more women stay in the workforce after their 20s. But as the article describes, their career prospects are very limited and few of them ever get a chance at stable lifetime employment that used to be the norm (but is also becoming less and less available) for men.
The male labor force participation rate grew from 83% to 86%. So although the increase was greater for women (from 57% to 72%), that hasn't reduced male employment. Male https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.MA.ZS?locat... Female https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.FE.ZS?locat... By "stable lifetime employment" do you mean staying at a single company for one's whole working life? Do you have a…
Mainly I mean a full-time, non-temporary work contract. Traditionally, in Japan that kind of contract also implies "staying at a single company for one's whole working life".
> Do you have any statistics showing that this is decreasing?
Look at the second chart here: https://www.nippon.com/en/currents/d00151/
> Even if it does, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
You think so because in the US and Europe, "staying at a single company for one's whole working life" is usually sub-optimal for the employee's career and earning potential. When switching companies, you can usually negotiate a higher salary than you could get via raises at your old company.
In Japan, it's different. High salaries and career prospects are basically only available in those "staying at a single company for one's whole working life" gigs, and they are given only to fresh university graduates. If you don't manage to get one of those (because companies weren't hiring when you were a fresh graduate), you'll be forever a second-class employee with a temporary contract, lower pay and less benefits.
Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please actually read the article. You couldn't be further from the truth. This isn't about people temporarily out of a job for whom having a lot of free time is a breath of fresh air. This is about people who have spent decades without a job or on-and-off underpaid jobs because they missed a critical, narrow window in their lives where full-time employment with actual career prospects was available. They feel stifled…
I read the article and all I could think was, "wow, what a load of excuses". The idea that you can only get a job if you take advantage of a critical window in your life is nonsense. There is plenty of work for people who are willing to work. For example, you could go door to door in your apartment complex and offer to take people's trash out to the dumpster. You could offer to clean their house, wash their dishes, d…
You nailed it. In Japan, if you did that kind of thing it would be hugely shameful for your entire family. People will go to great lengths to hide the fact that they don't have a conventional job.
> And if you are depressed, it's hard to find motivation to get out there and work and be rejected by all of the people who turn you down as you go door to door.
And of course the first point above amplifies any tendency for depression that people may already have.
Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was thinking before Corona, last year was very good for me. Once you realize social media is mostly fake validation seeking behavior you can decide if that's what you want . Ends up being tons of stress and mental anguish for nothing at all. I'll say without a doubt people are absolutely meaner via social media vs real life. I recall when I lived in Chicago how everyone in certain areas knew each other. Act like a…
>I'll say without a doubt people are absolutely meaner via social media vs real life HN is somewhat unique in not fostering or tolerating that sort of thing. Sure, sometimes a comments gets downvoted, because it expresses an unpopular view, but not so much if it is well thought-out & presented. And it's extremely rare to come across comments that are mean or otherwise unproductive without it quickly going dead. It's…
We have a similar problem in The Netherlands. For starters it is hard to buy a house (mortgage), free sector rent is expensive, and social housing is in huge shortage. Result: Young adults remain living with their parents. Daughter of my neighbor is well within her 30s, still living with mom.