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Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

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Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#321

Post by sitkack »

Frondo wrote: post #225
dencodev wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is not the best platform to from anti-capitalism sentiments. There's a lot of privilege here and it makes people pretty blind to how awful capitalism is (and the things it creates, like anti-union sentiment).

Unions aren't anti-capitalist, they explicitly work within a capitalist framework to ensure better pay and working conditions for their workers. Unions deal in money and don't seek to change that, unions recognize and don't challenge ownership of the business. What about them makes them anti-capitalist, except that they seek to shift the balance of "who, of all the people working on a business, gets paid what for the…

In mature union relations, they also ensure the long term viability of the business.

I knew someone through a friend that was kicked out of the carpenters union for not being good enough. Their accreditation can be quite strict.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#322

Post by kergonath »

stale2002 wrote: post #206
pydry wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They dropped a concrete block on his car. It wasn't attempted murder it was attempted property damage. So, yes, they killed him and were rightly imprisoned for manslaughter.

Nah. I think I am pretty ok will calling someone who does this a murderer. That is totally fine in my book to call them that.

Murder requires intent...

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#323

Post by dantheman »

celticninja wrote: post #273
chrisseaton wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know of anyone who disputes the killing of Wilkie happened or claims that it was somehow exaggerated. As a taxi driver he was also not a police officer or an agent of the state. He was not armed or causing violence to anyone. He was just driving someone who didn't agree with the union to work. So they killed him.

And they offenders were arrested, tried and punished. The difference here is the police are never subject to the same justice.

And why are police never punished, because police unions. Unions in their modern form are granted special privileges by the government and use those privileges to extort society. There is nothing wrong with people joining groups, collective bargaining, etc -- the problem is that they are given special privileges by the state.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#324

Post by kergonath »

refurb wrote: post #205
RobertoG wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying this is the case, but it occurs to me... that would be a good way to sabotage the start of an union. Just send some aggressive people posing like members of the union.

Ahh... of course. Employers use dirty tactics and if unions do, it’s because it’s employers trying to sabotage them. No way a union could ever use dirty tricks too. But of course they might because they were forced to by their employers?

How many documented instances of unionised militants trying to bully workers into joining?

History is full of private interests using the full might of the state and any trick they can think of to prevent unions.

So yeah, one is more likely than the other.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#325

Post by supercollision »

burfog wrote: post #295
supercollision wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 to your post and links. I'm also surprised by how much anti-union sentiment exists in the US; things like the 40-hour workweek and concept of overtime were paid for in blood.

Now the work week is less than 30 hours. Yay! All it took was requiring health insurance for employees with 30 hours. By that strategy, we could have a 10-hour work week if we wanted it.

I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding your point, but might a union actually help in this case?

The 30 hour mandate is from the federal government as part of the Affordable Care Act. If someone was moved from 40 hours to 29 hours because of this, that's bad, but they were likely not a union member, right? Unions would have a negotiated contract for however many hours they wanted (either more or less than the norm), and would have also already negotiated benefits on the side so the incentive for the employer to cut to 30 hours would be gone.

Regarding the fewer hours points - I wasn't advocating that shorter weeks are always better, but rather that unions are responsible for, or at least contributed to, many of the gains that workers got over the last 150 years, and that IMO have been eroding.

Pretending we lived in the early 20th century, isn't the benefit of 40 hours a week in a factory over >60 hours a week in a factory clear? In terms of health and safety, unions have also made sure that e.g. you were less likely to become trapped and burn alive during the workday [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fi...

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#326

Post by calcifer »

chrisseaton wrote: post #116
caoilte wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love the way you've got to reach back literally 36 years to find one example of union violence. The reputation that British unions actually have is for getting shat on by bullying employers.

I think it was a pretty watershed moment in union relations in the UK. It's what a lot of people think of when they think of unions in the UK. They're pretty unpopular here. I was explaining why a British person might call them goons.

> They're pretty unpopular here. I was explaining why a British person might call them goons.

Yeah, no. We must be living in different countries. There are lots of large, powerful, popular British unions in a wide variety of industries.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#327

Post by dmoy »

nixass wrote: post #279
sp332 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick search shows that L7 also exists at Facebook and Google at least. It's a senior (staff) software engineer. https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Software-Engi... Not sure about the ER part though.

Levels don't scale the same among FAANGs

In particular L7 at Amazon is roughly equivalent to L6 at Google, E6 at Facebook, 66-67-ish at Microsoft, and 5-ish at apple.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#328

Post by dantheman »

sitkack wrote: post #321
Frondo wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions aren't anti-capitalist, they explicitly work within a capitalist framework to ensure better pay and working conditions for their workers. Unions deal in money and don't seek to change that, unions recognize and don't challenge ownership of the business. What about them makes them anti-capitalist, except that they seek to shift the balance of "who, of all the people working on a business, gets paid what for the…

In mature union relations, they also ensure the long term viability of the business. I knew someone through a friend that was kicked out of the carpenters union for not being good enough. Their accreditation can be quite strict.

I'd like to see where they're ensuring long term viability - every group they work with in the US is either facing a pension crisis or is not thriving.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#329

Post by calcifer »

Frondo wrote: post #225
dencodev wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is not the best platform to from anti-capitalism sentiments. There's a lot of privilege here and it makes people pretty blind to how awful capitalism is (and the things it creates, like anti-union sentiment).

Unions aren't anti-capitalist, they explicitly work within a capitalist framework to ensure better pay and working conditions for their workers. Unions deal in money and don't seek to change that, unions recognize and don't challenge ownership of the business. What about them makes them anti-capitalist, except that they seek to shift the balance of "who, of all the people working on a business, gets paid what for the…

> What about them makes them anti-capitalist

They only exist because without them, capitalism and its advocates brutally oppress the workers, keeping them in a perpetual state of poverty. The fact that they are not literally trying to overthrow the regime doesn't mean they aren't anti-capitalist.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#330

Post by dantheman »

rightbyte wrote: post #316
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it’s a conspiracy or organized comment ring. The popular narrative around unions is one of the employees versus their employer, but ultimately even the business’ customers or adjacent businesses end up paying some of the price. For an example that will probably hit home for many HN users, try asking your trade show team about dealing with unions. The restrictions imposed by unions on trade show attendees are…

I guess you can't let people attach whatever willy nilly and trip the circuits or start a fire. Furthermore, that requirement is set by the trade show not the union right? Surely they take a share from the bills.

It's clear you've never worked with a union if you think the rules make sense or if you think the tradeshow had any say in this activity.
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