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US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

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Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#321

Post by arp242 »

mareko wrote: post #271
yyyk wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing that, but I am not familiar with any data that shows actual widespread use by common people* in those countries without a functional currency. Most of these countries barely have a stable internet connection or even stable electrical power, so I wouldn't surprised if these 'currencies' aren't so helpful in practice. * Note that use by corrupt politicians to launder their ill-gotten gains is not a posit…

It's true that Bitcoin is a poor medium of exchange: it's not stable, has slow transaction times, does not work well with mobile devices, and has intimidating identifiers, but it did open the door to new ideas that will likely soon have a huge impact on exactly the uses you're describing.

I feel like I've been hearing this for over 5 years. I hope it materializes, but to be honest it's hard to not be skeptical, not in the least because a lot of the original values of Bitcoin/cryptocurrencies seem to have been subverted by certain people to serve their own needs (which ... is what usually happens if there are no rules to set boundaries).

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#322

Post by r00fus »

d4mi3n wrote: post #138
curiouscats wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a tax on paying bounties that is used solely to fund agencies that track down and put those engaging in criminal activity online in jail. In order to be allowed to deduct the expense require paying the tax.

I think this is a step in the right direction, but I'd expand this to be a tax on all organizations that maintain large enough systems to become targets because: 1. Taxing only the victims is adding salt to a wound: these companies are already hurting from being attacked, lost money to the ransomer, and are likely to lose more shortly thereafter due to bad PR. They'll need this money to fix things and hire/consult ap…

It's almost like there should be some national security agency whose sole purpose would be to uncover this kind of activity and help those impacted. I wonder what I'd call it?

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#323

Post by garmaine »

Larrikin wrote: post #179
garmaine wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning... how?

Bitcoin is only useful currently when it can be turned into cash. There are no real businesses that don't turn their payments into a taxable national currency at the end. If you just ban exchanges in a few dominant countries btc is effectively useless as a hold of value and you're back to convincing the pizza guy to accept 30 coins for one pizza and other one off transactions

That doesn't really have any impact on the situation being discussed, though. Criminals are still more than happy to accept bitcoin.

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#324

Post by chii »

joe_the_user wrote: post #280
chii wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead democratizing currency, we're democratizing large scale crime. democratization works both ways. A democratized currency facilitates both crime as well as the oppressed - after all, you cannot tell the difference between them under an oppressive regime. What you implied that we should have is a democratized currency that's _only_ good for non-criminals (and used for "good purposes"). That's impossible. It's…

How does a democratized currency help the oppressed? It could help middle class people get their money out of a given country but otherwise, where's the benefit?

Middle class people can still be part of the oppressed ,and them being able to get money out or use it to fund resistance or activism is a good outcome.

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#325

Post by garmaine »

melq wrote: post #152
yyyk wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire thing relies on several things: nearly always-on connectivity, ability to convert to USD, crummy UX, and legit cover. A ban would do serious harm to 2, 3 and 4. If no one could pay legitimately and it would become (ever more) difficult to launder, the ransomware demands would die. The first (connectivity) could be impacted as well. What would happen when traffic shaping makes sync take longer and when ever…

I think the person you're responding to is how you would go about banning it in the first place, not necessarily why you would ban it.

Yes that's what I meant (not sure why you were down-voted).

Banning banks from doing business with bitcoin exchanges is not banning bitcoin. Banning use of bitcoin entirely is legally plausible, but technically impossible to implement without draconian internet censorship on the scale of China. It's a 100x harder to ban bitcoin than, say, bittorrent, and banning that in a free society ended up not being possible.

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#326

Post by raverbashing »

microcolonel wrote: post #150
yyyk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just looking at how it is currently used. If after all these years there isn't a positive use-case to offset it, there might not be one at all.

That's because you live in a country with a functioning currency.

Countries without functioning currencies just use (or at least peg) all transactions to Dollar/Euro, etc

Yes, bitcoin can play a role but it's not like you're paying for your groceries in bitcoin. Cash under the mattress > blockchain

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#327

Post by Lukabuz »

293984j29384 wrote: post #103

I found it interesting none of these sites actually provided the alleged bitcoin wallet address. I found it @ https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/13nmJ3SsNB5pSyQrmX3e6...

If anyone is interested, I wrote a python script to track where transactions from this address lead. It constructs a tree with this address being the base node, and addresses it has sent bitcoin to being the leaves.

https://github.com/lukabuz/BlockView

It didn't really lead anywhere substantial, but it was interesting to see how many addresses got involved after the depth of the tree exceeded 4.

As another commenter pointed out, some of these addresses have obscene amounts of money going through them. Really makes you think about the scale of these tumblers. 1NDyJtNTjmwk5xPNhjgAMu4HDHigtobu1s is an example, with about $108,081,555,724 having gone through it, and a current balance of $51,644,803

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#328

Post by garmaine »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #162
yyyk wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Let this be a lesson to those that say bitcoin and other cryptocurrency has no real value outside of speculation. >This kind of attack would be almost impossible in the pre-bitcoin era.... Instead democratizing currency, we're democratizing large scale crime. Just wanted to make this same point - right now, cryptocurrency has negative value for society. Perhaps this is a justification for banning the current impleme…

We need to make laws in western countries that paying off these kinds of ransoms is illegal. It gives money to criminal elements and only encourages this. I also thought it would be possible for powerful law enforcement groups to follow the bitcoins even through exchanges. Why does this not run into the worldwide hunt for the perpetrators?

It already is illegal, actually. Evil Corp, for example, is a listed entity that US persons can't send money (including bitcoin) to.

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#329

Post by curiousgal »

jjeaff wrote: post #281
rudolph9 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a regressive mindset. Why not ban the encryption while we’re at it? Instead of bashing it, how about we come up with solutions to the problems?

Encryption has shown itself to have innumerable good uses. What legitimate utility has crypto currency provided?

Boy do y'all come off as entitled and privileged. I know people in Third World countries with no access to international bank accounts that were only able to buy stuff online thanks to Bitcoin.

Just because you don't see a utility for it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#330

Post by garmaine »

jdietrich wrote: post #289
vkou wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's theoretically possible for powerful state-level adversaries to follow bitcoins through tumblers and exchanges (If they operate the former). Also, at some point, you're going to have to be paying rent, so you'll need to turn your BTC into dollars or pezos or pieces of eight, and may need to explain to your friendly tax authorities how you can by 4.5 million USD worth of BTC. In practice, though, it's not clear wh…

In a lot of jurisdictions, your friendly tax authorities won't ask or care; international fraud is a valuable source of foreign currency for many countries as long as you're reasonably discreet about it. Banks and payment processors can't afford to be nearly as blasé, because they're at far greater risk of facing international sanctions; Bitcoin provides an essential layer of obfuscation and deniability.

In the US for example, there's an actual field in your 1040 tax return for entering income from otherwise undeclared illegal businesses. Putting your drug or extortion money there and paying taxes is not admitting guilt and can't be used against you IIRC.
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