TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#321

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:42 PM UTC

billfruit wrote: post #304

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that it justifies our behavior, but I can’t help but cringe a bit when considering how China locks American companies out of its market but expects better access for Chinese companies in the American market. America-Chinese relations started going downhill in 2009 when China thought it prudent to start blocking most Americans services, America just took a decade to follow up with similar bad behavior.

Really this move seems nothing related at all to US companies not having sufficient access to China. If then why this 10 year gap from action to reaction. Many here seems to take this particular view of this move being a retaliation of some sort, but I feel that is a naive view of what US is doing here and how it will be perceived around the world. Put in specific data protection/privacy laws and regulations applicab…

How else would you negotiate with a bully like China? America is a bully too, but without Uighur concentration camps, fleets of fishing vessels farming the sea to extinction, outrageous claims over the South China Sea, etc.

You can only turn a blind eye so long to a competitor’s unreasonable actions (in this scope, IP/trade secrets and the like). As a US citizen, I endorse any actions intended to remove or subdue CCP influence, power, and control (domestically or internationally). None of this comment should be construed as a sleight against the Chinese people in aggregate.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#322

Post by ergocoder » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:42 PM UTC

balola wrote: post #248

ergocoder wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right now the public opinion in China (not mine) is that India and America are hypocritical bullies and abusing the "national security" excuse, while China "never banned" any foreign web services, those "simply refused to comply with Chinese laws regarding terrorism" and their "inaccessibility" totally justified. This is definitely not a public opinion. Public opinion in US is splited like it always is in every sin…

It's still what I said, the CCP doesn't care that much about who has data on its citizens, the amount they have could never match the party's anyway, and the measures being taken made it so that potential subversion is unlikely. It's a different story outside China and still the US's to lose. When 95% of the comments on Weibo are like what I said, I think it's pretty safe to say it is public opinion.

Yes, I misread it.

But even without TikTok matter, the general opinion in China would be anti-US anyway, no?

US is a bad guy to China regarding many matters like Hong Kong, Taiwan, islands on South China sea with Vietnam and Philippines.

This is not anyway unique to TikTok's matter. Tiktok problem seems pretty mild.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#323

Post by cwhiz » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:43 PM UTC

I’m fine with anything that damages China. The entire western world should be grouping together to fight the Chinese state. Their behavior the last couple of decades is obscene.

Right now, in 2020, China is operating Muslim concentration camps. Their factories are “employed” by de facto slave labor.

The western world should universally shun China. Ban anything that originates from China or anything that contains parts or software that originates from China.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#324

Post by cblconfederate » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:43 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #277

billfruit wrote: post #195

As someone from the third world this leaves a very bad feeling if it happens. I do expect it runs into legal hurdles before that. Neither Apple nor Google have found TikTok problematic enough to delist them from their app stores. Neither is there charges that TikTok may have broken US laws. Banning something which hasn't broken US laws, on arbitrary grounds shouldn't be possible. The President shouldn't have authorit…

Not that it justifies our behavior, but I can’t help but cringe a bit when considering how China locks American companies out of its market but expects better access for Chinese companies in the American market. America-Chinese relations started going downhill in 2009 when China thought it prudent to start blocking most Americans services, America just took a decade to follow up with similar bad behavior.

They also offer the US access to cheap workforce, which is kept unbeatably cheap via the action of the chinese state. I thought it was a tit-for-tat relationship.

The argument is also used a-la-carte: It's decades since the first time google pulled out of china, yet there was no relatiation then. And it does not apply to other countries which are often blocking google/facebook/youtube like russia or turkey?

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#325

Post by katzgrau » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:43 PM UTC

billfruit wrote: post #195

As someone from the third world this leaves a very bad feeling if it happens. I do expect it runs into legal hurdles before that. Neither Apple nor Google have found TikTok problematic enough to delist them from their app stores. Neither is there charges that TikTok may have broken US laws. Banning something which hasn't broken US laws, on arbitrary grounds shouldn't be possible. The President shouldn't have authorit…

> The President shouldn't have authority to ban anything at all let alone an app available through privately operated app stores.

If it's a matter of national security, yes, he should. Whether it's ultimately seen as an abuse of power can be decided later in courts or via election.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#326

Post by the8472 » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:45 PM UTC

billfruit wrote: post #304

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that it justifies our behavior, but I can’t help but cringe a bit when considering how China locks American companies out of its market but expects better access for Chinese companies in the American market. America-Chinese relations started going downhill in 2009 when China thought it prudent to start blocking most Americans services, America just took a decade to follow up with similar bad behavior.

Really this move seems nothing related at all to US companies not having sufficient access to China. If then why this 10 year gap from action to reaction. Many here seems to take this particular view of this move being a retaliation of some sort, but I feel that is a naive view of what US is doing here and how it will be perceived around the world. Put in specific data protection/privacy laws and regulations applicab…

> If then why this 10 year gap from action to reaction.

Perhaps due to a change in administration to one that is willing to engage in retaliation because globalisation is less popular with its voter base.

> Put in specific data protection/privacy laws and regulations applicable to all players, not hound a single company without being able to prove any wrong doing in their part,

The argument here is that china's protectionist trade practices should normally be addressed through the WTO but that was seen as ineffective because any compliance efforts were in name only.

TPP might have addressed some of this, but that was also dropped due to public opinion.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#327

Post by ETHisso2017 » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:45 PM UTC

rdiddly wrote: post #305

Sorry, under what legal framework does the Executive branch of the US government "ban" an app, and what does that look lik, i.e. what actions does it take, and has it ever happened before?

IEEPA. No, it hasn't happened to an app before

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#328

Post by nardi » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

The real reason behind this is that TikTok teens ruined his Tulsa rally and now he wants to get back at them. Simple as that.

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#329

Post by slim » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #277

billfruit wrote: post #195

As someone from the third world this leaves a very bad feeling if it happens. I do expect it runs into legal hurdles before that. Neither Apple nor Google have found TikTok problematic enough to delist them from their app stores. Neither is there charges that TikTok may have broken US laws. Banning something which hasn't broken US laws, on arbitrary grounds shouldn't be possible. The President shouldn't have authorit…

Not that it justifies our behavior, but I can’t help but cringe a bit when considering how China locks American companies out of its market but expects better access for Chinese companies in the American market. America-Chinese relations started going downhill in 2009 when China thought it prudent to start blocking most Americans services, America just took a decade to follow up with similar bad behavior.

if the user is the product, the situation is better described as "blocking a foreign company from mining it's resources"

Re: TikTok’s Chinese owner offers to forego stake to clinch U.S. deal – sources

#330

Post by pm90 » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #321

billfruit wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really this move seems nothing related at all to US companies not having sufficient access to China. If then why this 10 year gap from action to reaction. Many here seems to take this particular view of this move being a retaliation of some sort, but I feel that is a naive view of what US is doing here and how it will be perceived around the world. Put in specific data protection/privacy laws and regulations applicab…

How else would you negotiate with a bully like China? America is a bully too, but without Uighur concentration camps, fleets of fishing vessels farming the sea to extinction, outrageous claims over the South China Sea, etc. You can only turn a blind eye so long to a competitor’s unreasonable actions (in this scope, IP/trade secrets and the like). As a US citizen, I endorse any actions intended to remove or subdue CCP…

If you’re going to list vices, you better list those of both sides. America is the largest emitter of greenhouse gases by far and is this directly responsible for the climate change catastrophes we are watching unfold before our eyes.

EDIT: this fact is incorrect, please see child comment for the facts. It looks like China currently emits twice the amount of Greenhouse gases emitted by the US.

(Not justifying what China is doing, which is horrible and needs to be condemned too. But acting as if it’s one country that does terrible things without pointing out the single largest existential threat to humankind is a bit rich).