I feel the need to point out that this is the president who spent eight years promising big-C Change, all while mostly just reinforcing and benefitting from the existing status-quo. I think it's that sunny, vaguely positive but cowardly and ineffectual brand of politics that set the stage for the wave of populist unrest we're seeing from both the left and the right right now. Politicians have been promising change without delivering on it for far too long, and voters are done. I would argue that politicians like Obama are the very reason people no longer believe democracy works.
How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change
321–330 of 430 posts
Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
The British model - and i know we have a much lower level of gun ownership than the US, but hear me out! - is to have bobbies on the beat not be armed, but to have rapid response units available which are very heavily armed indeed [1] [2]. So, if police on the street encounter an armed criminal, they fall back, radio for support, and wait for a group of colleagues with assault rifles, sub-machine guns, and proper tra…
That could work in Massachusetts, Maryland or some other states with very low firearms ownership rates. I don't think it's fair to ask police to go out and police without at least letting them have (at their discretion) the same level of armament as the local law abiding citizens and holding them to the same standards when they do use force. Allowing a civilian police force to have things the local civilians can't ha…
A different argument in favor of disarmed police is specifically relevant for the presence of an armed citizen (at least in very urban and central area where reinforcements can be minutes away, not half an hour)
You could say that disarmed police in regular patrols can be safer as it is less of a threat to a criminal. this would obviously not apply to known cases of dangers or cases were reinforcements are unlikely.
Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change
#323> So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. Taboos around violence for political are one of the crucial building blocks for a functioning democracy. If those taboos are broken, even for a good cause, you set a precedence that violence works. And the next cause won’t be as good. One only has to look at the lessons of the Roman Revolution that started with the murder of Grachus, and ended w…
I cannot condone violence nor encourage it, but you have to admit that the first few protests and property damage drastically influenced the quick arrest of an officer that may not have been arrested or even fired if it didn't happen. The non-violent protests of Colin Kaepernick were mocked and used to rally the other side and just weren't effective. The problem here is not the violence, but a policing system that is…
Better arrests and better prosecution may be helpful, not quick arrests.
For example, the bar owner that killed a protestor in Omaha, NE was arrested right after the incident. Tonight he has been released because the investigation determined the shooting was self-defense.
Omaha will burn brightly tonight.
Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the libertarian suggestions are certainly part of the solution but I don't think they're sufficient on their own. History shows us that racism is remarkably resistant to market forces.
Racism is not something that could even be solved with market forces, nor would any libertarian claim such a thing. At best we would say the market gives non-racists the best chance to isolate the push back against racists History shows that if a society is racist the absolute WORST thing you can do is have a strong government, as that government will likely be filled with racists who will pass racist laws. (See The…
How do you reconcile the fact that the US government is as big as it has ever been while at the same time we have made significant progress on racial issues? Further much of that progress was driven by government mandate: The Civil Rights acts, anti-discrimination laws for employment, affirmative action, etc.
Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
Laws are disproportionately overenforced on black communities. Your numbers are collected after a large amount of the bias is already baked in and collected by the people perpetrating the bias. Maybe that didn't occur to you. You're just asking questions right?
I welcome more data that has less sampling bias, but without some attempt to quantify the amount of sampling bias here we don’t know if it has a big impact on this data.
It's presupposing a negligible effect of racial bias on arrest data. That's a very good reason to not use it in showing a negligible effect of racial bias on another scenario involving police. I'm struggling to think of a better example of a circular argument.
Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
You do not use violence in a democratic protest. To use it is effective acknowledgement that you either want to destroy the democracy or do not believe that it actually exists on the moment.
> democratic protest It seems like the protestors have lost faith in the democratic process. Can you still call it a democratic protest?
Then is it a revolution? What is the plan? The want to secede Minneapolis?
It is either a democratic protest, domestic terrorism, or a civil war. I hope with all my being that it is a democratic protest.
Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was actually seeking to overthrows the government, and it was treason from the eyes of the British. If the British had won, likely every one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence would have been hanged or worse. If you want to change the way things are inside the system vote, organize, protest. But actually seeking to overthrow the government is opening a whole can of very, very bad things.
Gay rights, women's rights, civil rights were all won by combating unjust power using every tool available, including violence. Oppressors don't self-limit the tools they'll use to maintain power. Neither can those who are oppressed.
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Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
As far as I can tell, the people burning everything down aren't even particularly likely to be black, efforts to spin this as some kind of necessary fight back against racism by people who've been suffering not withstanding. The folks cheering it on and advocating for this to their audiences definitely aren't - they're largely white, middle-class techies and journos and other well-off educated folks who aren't worrie…
I agree with you that it seems the people sparking the looting/fires/etc seem to be mostly white. I just don't think that will matter in the minds of the average person who barely watches the news. To the extent that they are watching anything, they will see tons of videos of black people committing crimes on social media.
What makes you believe that the looters are mostly white? I mean, the people you are talking against, they have all the video evidence they need of black people and others looting and causing destruction that they need. What do you have?
I'd really like to see some. I've been having some cognitive dissonance lately. Some portions of the media are telling me that the looters are white supremacists, but unless there are substantial amount of black/brown white supremacists in this country, the video evidence says otherwise...
Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
America rebelled precisely because we didn't have a meaningfully representative form of government? People couldn't vote for the reforms they wanted because there wasn't a democracy. Rebellion against an overtly oppressive tyrant as a last resort for the right to representation is different than the opportunistic violence that we're seeing today.
At what point do aggressive voter suppression laws by the Republican party constitute tyranny? I imagine many of those individuals targeted by those laws would say it is already well past that point.
Minneapolis is a democratic/progressive stronghold. The GOP has no influence there.
Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
> democratic protest It seems like the protestors have lost faith in the democratic process. Can you still call it a democratic protest?
Then is it a revolution? What is the plan? The want to secede Minneapolis? It is either a democratic protest, domestic terrorism, or a civil war. I hope with all my being that it is a democratic protest.
It's the same justification many people used for voting for Trump, which was that?