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New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

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Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#321

Post by arbitrary_name »

stan_rogers wrote: post #168
guenthert wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it won't. If people mingle and fail to "flatten the curve", the whole mess will be over sooner, albeit with more dead old people. If you believe you can starve the virus of hosts, you're delusional.

As an "old people", I thank you for your consideration and concern.

You're welcome.

If you live, remember to vote progressively on housing and other things that your generation has a death grip on.

If you pass, my condolences: It wasn't personal, merely generational.

With some remaining respect,

Young People

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#322

Post by tom-thistime »

nerdponx wrote: post #233
munificent wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I hate this take. I get where it's coming from. In times of significant stress, it's important that we all pull together and do work to benefit society as a whole. And part of the way we incentivize that is by calling out people who don't do their part. I get it. But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. We've already got enoug…

This is a really naive take in my opinion. Edit: it's naive at best . Sounds more like you don't want to accept that bad shit is happening in the world. This has absolutely fuck-all to do with cancel culture and everything to do with selfish people spreading a dangerous disease. You can make the same argument about seatbelts. The majority of people wear seatbelts because they've been asked to and they understand the…

A serious problem with outrage culture is exhaustion. The latest outrage is always an 11 on a scale of 10. For a couple of years that's ok. But apathy is the normal end result of constant outrage.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#323

Post by marknutter »

lutorm wrote: post #272
marknutter wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what percentage of people have been saved by ventilators vs. merely had their death delayed.

It appears 5-10% of people need ventilators, and "need a ventilator" basically means that you will die without one. So the difference between that 5-10% and the actual death rate of <1% should be your answer.

I guess it really comes down to whether or not someone actually needed it, which is a very difficult thing to determine.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#324

Post by jrockway »

ransom1538 wrote: post #224
throwaway5752 wrote: post #129

There is no doubt Cuomo should be the national point person for the response to the crisis based on his performance so far. He is independently working with regional manufacturing to retool to make critical medical PPE and ventilators, and has organized a regional coalition including CT, NJ, and PA. I have not agreed with him all the time, but his crisis management has been exemplary and he will have saved many lives…

Sorry what? His state has the highest infection rate and he just NOW did a 100% workforce reduction. He hasn't even issued "a shelter in place" order. BARS WERE OPEN MONDAY. Thousands of deaths will be on his hands. I think he should be criminally prosecuted. NY needs to be locked down NOW .

I think Cuomo understands that it's not actually possible to lock down NYC. There aren't enough cops, courtrooms, or jail cells to enforce anything. That is why he's focusing on fining businesses for staying open, and is not sending cops up to make sure everyone stays 6 feet apart. One thing is possible, the other is just an authoritarian pipe dream.

"Shelter in place" is a meaningless term when you can leave the shelter to go for a walk, go out and buy groceries, go to work as one of the many essential services, etc. Cuomo said as much. This isn't a natural disaster that destroyed infrastructure; all that needs to be done is keep the rate of hospitalizations under the number of available hospital beds.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#325

Post by aalleavitch »

Veen wrote: post #167
aalleavitch wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great way to get rid of outrage culture, btw, would be to get rid of all the systems generating the outrage.

That assumes outrage is motivated primarily by flawed systems and not the psychological and social benefits that accrue to those who express the most outrage. It may also be true that outrage is not the best way to solve systemic problems.

I'm not sure you actually understand how legitimately scared we all are.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#326

Post by mistermann »

mistermann wrote: post #182
dionidium wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It may be good - the outcome determines if it is good. I'm not strongly committed to the argument that it's good. A better word might be "appropriate" or "justified." The point is that this kind of outrage is very different from what we normally call "outrage culture." The implication in a phrase like "outrage culture " isn't that outrage is an invalid human emotion; it's that it's not being tuned/targeted correctl…

That's fair enough, I was simply improving your comment. I have a theory that cultures that value (and I mean truly value) clean, rational thinking, will be superior in not only reacting to these sorts of crises, but preventing them in the first place. If one looks very carefully at the nature of most of the discussions taking place in the memeplex on covid-19 and a variety of other hot button topics, one thing you w…

I think the world would be a better place if people were willing to explain why they disagree with (perceived to be) differing perspectives. The love/hate relationship we seem to have with facts and truth and these sorts of things also seems suboptimal.

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/940/counterspee...

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#327

Post by samsonradu »

arbitrary_name wrote: post #302
marknutter wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what percentage of people have been saved by ventilators vs. merely had their death delayed.

Curious as well. I find that in the US, we have an understandable but sometimes costly attachment to 'treat at all costs'. I lost a family member to cancer last year - and was pushed by providers to pursue treatment that would have bankrupted me and my family, while adding (maybe) a few months of (low quality) life to someone already in pain and confined to a hospital bed. I was made to feel callous about balancing t…

I’m sorry to hear that but you are spot on. Some decisions require cold-blood and we can only hope we chose the lesser evil.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#328

Post by uoaei »

henryfjordan wrote: post #267
vincentmarle wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that Gov Newsom of CA has been doing a way better job than Cuomo: - implements stricter measures faster and more decisively, while having a lower case count - doesn't fight with his mayors or the President - no false promises or statements that need to be taken back days later

Newsom referred to California as a "Nation State" repeatedly in his latest address, which is a great way to tell the Federal Government to pound sand. He took Trump's call for each state to fend for itself seriously. I wouldn't say that he's not fighting with the president. He's been doing a great job though

Wouldn't it be wild if this triggered secession?

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#329

Post by uoaei »

dyingkneepad wrote: post #237
tanilama wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, he seems to be on top of things, other than being dismissive at first, then drastic change course when meeting with criticism

There are people who will be in their deathbed due to COVID-19 and still be dismissive to it. Changing opinions when facts change is not a given for everyone :/

You're talking about low-info by-standers and comparing them to someone who should be governing an important state in the richest nation in the world.

There is no comparison here. He is doing a subpar job given his responsibilities.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#330

Post by zepearl »

marknutter wrote: post #247
cameldrv wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The progression to death is something like: (very rough, from memory) Day 0: Infection Day 5: First Symptoms Day 11: Hospital admission/shortness of breath/oxygen Day 14: Ventilator Day 21: Death If there's no ventilator on day 14, the process is tragically accelerated.

I wonder what percentage of people have been saved by ventilators vs. merely had their death delayed.

Here are some stats about Italy: https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1593946/embed (extracted from here: https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/ )

("Morti giornalieri = daily deaths | "Terapia intensiva" = total amount of people in intensive care on that day)

As people who need a ventilator are in intensive care (but I admit that that includes as well people that have other types of complications who might not need/be using a ventilator), an idea of that can maybe be extrapolated by comparing that number vs. the number of deaths (daily? total?)?

Thinking more about it, another complication with these numbers is that there are probably already now not enough ventilators, therefore the deaths might include people that died because of the lack of a ventilator... .

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