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Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

nytimes.com

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Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#321

Post by thangalin »

acabal wrote: post #2

This really highlights how utterly insane our system is. I'm living off of my own business, which means that I don't have an employer to cover me under group insurance. But I really only make enough to live frugally and save a tiny amount each month--to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the…

In Canada, I pay $60.50 per month (was recently $57) into our Medical Services Plan:

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/premium.html

The West Coast, by the way, is beautiful. Vancouver BC and Seattle WA are practically sibling cities.

Apply for citizenship. We'd love to have you!

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#322

Post by joelhaasnoot »

old-gregg wrote: post #91
Groxx wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the plan worthless for anything short of a car-crash-emergency-type-situation. This fits a fair number of cost complaints I hear over healthcare. Who wouldn't like to pay $50-100/month to have something better than emergency healthcare support? But thi…

Doctors and nurses and supporting staff must exist I got a $800 bill for 10 minutes doctor visit (swollen toe). Not exaggerating a tiny bit. No insurance company involved. "Must exist" is not an argument. Something is broken in the system where a doctor charges you $4,800 per hour. Insurance companies, obesity, poor lifestyle choices (all usual BS reasons I hear on TV) do not explain why this particular ####le charge…

I had a 1000 euro bill for getting 4 wisdom teeth removed by the oral surgeon, in a hospital, where I was out in 30 min (two 15 min procedures). The beauty? I pay 100 euros a month in coverage, with a 175 euro deductable, which I easily went over that year. Oh, and doctor's visits are free.

Welcome to the Netherlands... (and yes, we have waiting lists, and other issues with healthcare, but atleast it's affordable)

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#323

Post by rdouble »

intended wrote: post #307
rdouble wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few doctors want to live in a rural area for lifestyle reasons more than salary. A GP or surgeon can make more money in a rural area.

How? Do they charge higher rates than elsewhere - effectively using supply and demand and saying: "You don't have anywhere else to go, so pay my rates."

Most doctors these days are salaried employees at a large health care organization. They get higher salaries in the sticks because nobody wants to work there.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#324

Post by WildUtah »

enjo wrote: post #316
WildUtah wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a civilized country, if you knew what the prescription would be, you could just walk into a pharmacy and buy it. The dotor charges $600 and provides no value. He exists to charge rent on his DEA license.

You do realize how terrible that idea is right? We'd see the rates of antibiotic resistant bacteria go through the roof in the first week.

Lots of countries have sold antibiotics freely but the epidemic of resistence mostly seems to show up in the prescription-only countries where doctors push antibiotics on everyone with a cold in order to justify their offensive office visit fees.

Also, even if there is a case for antibiotics, there still isn't any case for 95% of medications.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#325

Post by speleding »

damoncali wrote: post #201
muhfuhkuh wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan forces their doctors to charge only what's published in a book that the government issues and negotiates prices periodically. Simple price fixing in an otherwise private healthcare market. In return, Japanese doctors and hospitals (FYI, there are more private hospitals in Japan than the US) are allowed to set whatever prices for ancillary services (like private or semi-private rooms) that they want. BTW, the av…

What people don't like to admit is that free markets don't work for healthcare. What is the price you're willing to pay for curing that tumor in your gut? Everything you have. There is no supply vs. demand. Only supply vs infinity. What would happen to the food market were it not for the generally high supply of food? It wouldn't be pretty. Because of that, some sort of non-market intervention is simply unavoidable.…

> free markets don't work for healthcare

Healthcare can be broken up into a lot of smaller markets, and for a lot of those the free market works just fine. The market for coffee in the cafeteria of the hospital works fine as a free market. Do you know what percentage of healthcare cost pertain to the cost of the actual treatment itself? (hint: it's a very small part)

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#326

Post by steipete »

acabal wrote: post #2

This really highlights how utterly insane our system is. I'm living off of my own business, which means that I don't have an employer to cover me under group insurance. But I really only make enough to live frugally and save a tiny amount each month--to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the…

In austria, if you have your own business, you have to pay for the state own insurance company a part of your total income, which is usually a beween a few hundredths and thousand bucks PER MONTH. So don't argue with $50-$100 a month.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#327

Post by intended »

rdouble wrote: post #323
intended wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? Do they charge higher rates than elsewhere - effectively using supply and demand and saying: "You don't have anywhere else to go, so pay my rates."

Most doctors these days are salaried employees at a large health care organization. They get higher salaries in the sticks because nobody wants to work there.

Ah. Thanks for that info.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#328

Post by StudyAnimal »

tptacek wrote: post #207
damoncali wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What people don't like to admit is that free markets don't work for healthcare. What is the price you're willing to pay for curing that tumor in your gut? Everything you have. There is no supply vs. demand. Only supply vs infinity. What would happen to the food market were it not for the generally high supply of food? It wouldn't be pretty. Because of that, some sort of non-market intervention is simply unavoidable.…

This is a weird summary of how "free markets" and "supply and demand" work. Yes, you will pay everything you have for a cure. But the guy who will offer you a cure for "everything you have minus one dollar" is going to get your business.

No he wont. The next guy that comes along and offers a cure for "everything you have minus TWO dollars" gets the business, and so on, until an equilibrium is reached where it is not worth being in the business by offering cheaper prices.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#329

Post by rb2k_ »

Groxx wrote: post #22
acabal wrote: post #2

This really highlights how utterly insane our system is. I'm living off of my own business, which means that I don't have an employer to cover me under group insurance. But I really only make enough to live frugally and save a tiny amount each month--to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the…

> to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the plan worthless for anything short of a car-crash-emergency-type-situation. This fits a fair number of cost complaints I hear over healthcare. Who wouldn't like to pay $50-100/month to have something better than emergency healthcare support? But thi…

> But think about the costs of such a system, regardless of inefficiencies / the problems of the current system that make things cost hundreds of thousands

That's why Germany has a social system where people pay in a fixed percentage (15,5%) of their income. That way, everybody pays the same percentage and everybody gets the same service.

If I wasn't self-employed, my employer would have to pay 50% of these costs, so it would be about 8% of my income.

The nice thing: this gets automatically deducted from an employees pay, so if he gets a raise or a cut, the percentage always stays the same.

The downside of it: I make decent money at the moment and have to pay 600-700 euros/month for healthcare.

If you make over a certain amount of money or are self-employed, you can opt-out of this system and move to a cheaper and better private one.

I won't work for long because of demographic change, but it's an ok starting point

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#330

Post by anonymoushn »

DougBTX wrote: post #178
hoprocker wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many decades do you expect there to be twenty-somethings, period? (Isn't this also the operating principle behind social security?)

Isn't this also the operating principle behind social security? Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought that the reason his age was brought up was to justify giving him a lower premium. The principle behind social security (or at least the variation where I live) is that everyone pays, and everyone gets healthcare. His age and his health don't come into it.

Actually, everyone pays, and everyone receives an amount related to but not equal to the amount paid if they live long enough. You are less likely to live long enough if you are black or poor, and you are likely to receive 924 times the amount you contributed if your name is Ida May Fuller.
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