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Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

bbc.com

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Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#321

Post by toasterlovin »

seneca wrote: post #305
the_af wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the erosion of wages as a consequence of womens' entry into the workplace has actually taken away the choice of being a full-time mum for many, by forcing them to work. I don't buy this narrative, sorry. Also, of course women who want to stay at home taking care of the babies while the father is less involved in child-rearing are perfectly welcome to do it. It's just that I think it's unfair that society expect…

> I don't buy this narrative, sorry. I think you may have missed their point, as there's not much to "buy". I hadn't considered it before, and it strikes me as interesting. I believe what they're saying is that women being introduced into the work force en-masse, and therefore nearly doubling the working population, has driven down wages. The lower wages made it harder for a single bread-winner to support a family, w…

Right. It’s a ratchet; a process that only proceeds in a single direction.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#322

Post by zozbot234 »

mrfredward wrote: post #251
tilolebo wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because many governments rely on children to finance the country's economy? It's still less costly than immigration.

>It's still less costly than immigration. Can you explain this? Its hard for me to imagine how letting someone through a border could cost more than providing healthcare and education to an individual for 18+ years. If a government really wants the increase the tax base, how could you possibly find a better ROI than letting skilled working age people immigrate?

It's not easy to establish any single country as a preferred destination for skilled, working-age folks with pro-social, modern cultural values (as opposed to Third-World $#!+hole ones). It requires very high standards of good government, low corruption, strong economic growth etc. Canada can achieve this with relative ease, as can (potentially) other Anglosphere countries. Northern European countries as well, with their "socialism w/ Scandinavian characteristics". Other places, it's very much a crapshoot. But if you can just make more people, you're set even if your country has terrible policies.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#323

Post by MandieD »

romaaeterna wrote: post #142

My family is of Norwegian extraction and I'm a dad too. My wife has a completely different relationship with my kids than I do. She also had to go through a great deal more to birth them than I did. Her parental leave was as much about medical recovery as it was bonding time with the kids. And, to put this delicately, but as something that needs to be stated because it's true and important for the discussion: she has…

There's a lot that can go wrong for a family that can at least be softened if the mother has a career that she can go back to if she ends up needing to support the family, and in our economy, that pretty much means going back to work at least part-time within a few years of giving birth.

The friend I worry about the most: mom of 4 who had her first child a year after getting married straight out of college, and has never lived on her own or worked a job that could support even a young single woman, much less a family. I trust that her husband, being a well-paid financial planner, has a big life insurance policy and very good disability insurance, but what if he gets a wild hair and runs off? She was our high school valedictorian and had good grades in college, but would be absolutely lost if she had to support her kids, even with the relatively meager child support she'd get.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#324

Post by SuperFerret »

leetcrew wrote: post #319
dfxm12 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there is a big election coming up. You can find out who is on the ballot, where they stand on this issue and pass the info along to the people in your area. If someone isn't planning on having kids, they might not think it affects them, so be prepared to convince them otherwise, too.

when you say "increased parental leave", childfree people tend to hear "more money out of my pocket". I'm not sure how you would go about convincing them this is a good thing.

Make billionaires pay for it.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#325

Post by stevekemp »

KillerRAK wrote: post #304

I love a good, "X Nordic Country provides Y for FREE -- so should the United States!" Where Y is some socialized benefit. Let's put this in perspective: Finland's population is around 5.5 million people. That's somewhere between the populations of South Carolina and Minnesota. Get a grip people -- The United States is not even remotely equivalent to Finland in terms of demographics and population. Find a nice U.S. St…

Yes, Finland is small. Yes the cost of covering these benefits is smaller than it would be in America, but the people who pay taxes are also fewer.

If all of America paid the same %-taxes as Finnish people do the system would absolutely work. It isn't magic. It's just that your country has decided, over a number of years, that health-care should be covered by insurance, and employment, rather than taxes.

If your politicians want to make a change, and get the appropriate votes, you absolutely could do the same thing as is done here.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#326

Post by ahoy »

leetcrew wrote: post #319
dfxm12 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there is a big election coming up. You can find out who is on the ballot, where they stand on this issue and pass the info along to the people in your area. If someone isn't planning on having kids, they might not think it affects them, so be prepared to convince them otherwise, too.

when you say "increased parental leave", childfree people tend to hear "more money out of my pocket". I'm not sure how you would go about convincing them this is a good thing.

I think you vastly overestimate the power of the r/childfree subreddit as a voting bloc

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#327

Post by rileymat2 »

_jal wrote: post #300
keanzu wrote: post #175

> noticed about Norway when we were in Oslo A lot can be achieved when your country floats on oil. The Government Pension Fund Global, aka the Oil Fund, was worth about $195,000 per Norwegian citizen in 2018. If others had this kind of safety net they might behave in a similar manner. Petrostates can afford a lot of leisure time for their citizens.

> Petrostates can afford a lot of leisure time for their citizens So what's the United State's excuse? (A lot of US citizens are somehow unaware of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_produ... )

I think for this sort of discussion you need to look at per capita production in the linked chart.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#328

Post by kickopotomus »

KillerRAK wrote: post #304

I love a good, "X Nordic Country provides Y for FREE -- so should the United States!" Where Y is some socialized benefit. Let's put this in perspective: Finland's population is around 5.5 million people. That's somewhere between the populations of South Carolina and Minnesota. Get a grip people -- The United States is not even remotely equivalent to Finland in terms of demographics and population. Find a nice U.S. St…

The Finnish GDP per capita is $45,700. For the US, it's $59,500. Please explain why social programs are so impossible for one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#329

Post by baby_wipe »

kraigie wrote: post #197
baby_wipe wrote: post #61

I strongly dislike the idea of any government-mandated paternal leave. Staying home from work is not free, and the cost of it comes out of my salary. I personally want some paternal leave even with its costs, but I'd prefer that negotiation to stay between me and my employer. I don't want some bottom threshold set by a third party.

How do you feel about the US' government mandated overtime laws? The government mandated exempt employees? Just curious.

You mean like 1.5x pay? If so, I don't like that either.

Not sure what exempt employees are (my own ignorance).

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#330

Post by leetcrew »

ahoy wrote: post #326
leetcrew wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when you say "increased parental leave", childfree people tend to hear "more money out of my pocket". I'm not sure how you would go about convincing them this is a good thing.

I think you vastly overestimate the power of the r/childfree subreddit as a voting bloc

why would you say that? I'm directly responding to a comment that suggests persuading childfree people that they should care about parental leave.
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