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Starlink Is a Big Deal

sneak.berlin

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Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#321

Post by jcurbo »

modeless wrote: post #16

Just going to plug my Starlink tracker here: https://james.darpinian.com/satellites/?special=starlink It tells you when to go outside and look up to see the satellites as they pass over your house. It's a cool sight to see because there are up to 60 of them crossing the sky at the same time in a line.

Your site is exceptional, thanks for creating it. I used it a few weeks ago to see a Starlink pass over my area. I like how you added the simulated view in Streetview, I think that will help a lot of people understand what to look for that aren't necessarily astronomy types.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#322

Post by [deleted] »

raxxorrax wrote: post #264
aylmao wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't covering the world in a blanket of satellites from a single company the epitome of a global Monopoly? shivers . My gripe with this comment is the subtle neo-colonial undertone it has too. "The world needs saving from their inefficient local authorities! It's their fault other countries don't enjoy the spoils of modernity. Luckily this charitable Westerner will bring you under their efficient global empire...…

> neo-colonial undertone it has too This argument makes absolutely no sense at all. How is that colonialism? I would like a further explanation. Because corporation government?

[deleted]

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#323

Post by Robotbeat »

Barrin92 wrote: post #10

> "Hundreds of cities and dozens of countries, fine for living but previously entirely unsuitable for a place of business, will blink from red to green on the map once Starlink goes live." this reads like a marketing piece rather than actual analysis. Throughput of a single satellite is 20Gbps. The finished constellation if I recall correctly is supposed to be about 12k satellites. So about ~250.000Gbps. So assuming…

The throughput per satellite is not fixed. The constellation is designed to be refreshed and upgraded (more beams, more phased array elements, better back-end) about every 4-5 years. Geosynchronous satellites can have up to 1 terabit per satellite (and increasing). The size of the constellation may eventually be up to 40,000 satellites, many at an even lower altitude which increases gain in each direction. So on the order of 40Petabit/s throughput is doable in the medium-term.

And of course, people don't use 100MB/s constantly. The ratio is not uncommonly 1:100 in max vs average throughput, and this ratio is higher the greater the max bandwidth (average used throughput increases sub-linearly with max throughput). So say about 1Mbps average per user with 40Pbps constellation-wide, and you're looking at on the order of billions of connections possible at the largest scale.

Still about 12Pbps possible at 12000 satellites. Enough for billions of connections still.

Even at 20Gbps and 12,000 satellites and 1Mbps average usage per connection, that's still on the order of a hundred million connections.

More likely, they'll have fewer-than-billions of connections with more available average bandwidth than 1Mbps. But it definitely is a gamechanger in rural internet capability.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#324

Post by Robotbeat »

eqvinox wrote: post #131
Barrin92 wrote: post #10

> "Hundreds of cities and dozens of countries, fine for living but previously entirely unsuitable for a place of business, will blink from red to green on the map once Starlink goes live." this reads like a marketing piece rather than actual analysis. Throughput of a single satellite is 20Gbps. The finished constellation if I recall correctly is supposed to be about 12k satellites. So about ~250.000Gbps. So assuming…

On one hand, as other sibling posts are pointing out, you're comparing true network capacity with subscribed ("sold") capacity; those are massively different by orders of magnitude (depending on how shitty your ISP is.) On the other hand, it's far worse than "20G per satellite." Bandwidth is limited by available RF spectrum, and that's not magically gonna increase with satellite count. Best thing they can try is limi…

> "On the other hand, it's far worse than "20G per satellite." Bandwidth is limited by available RF spectrum, and that's not magically gonna increase with satellite count."

That's not true. More satellites allows you to put them in lower orbits, increasing spatial multiplexing. Yes, even for the same spectrum.

This is not like mobile where the phones have fairly omnidirectional antenna (improving to a handful of elements under 5G). The user terminals will have dozens if not hundreds or thousands of phased array elements, allowing connections to multiple satellites simultaneously and very narrow beamwidths. The satellites also have phased arrays with lots of elements.

I agree that dense cities and optical fiber will still be able to beat out Starlink (and similar), but there is PLENTY of room for using the same amount of RF spectrum for vastly greater bandwidth using spatial multiplexing and phased arrays on both ends and multiple, cooperating satellites in view simultaneously.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#325

Post by slackfan »

asutekku wrote: post #257
sedatk wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it could be better other way around. Start with GeoIP and add an "Improve Location" option. That way more people would enable it.

Most users will let the site use their device’s gps. Having the first step to be ”input your gps coordinates” would alienate a HUGE portion of the possible users.

"Enter your postal code" generally works about as well though.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#326

Post by modeless »

slackfan wrote: post #325
asutekku wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most users will let the site use their device’s gps. Having the first step to be ”input your gps coordinates” would alienate a HUGE portion of the possible users.

"Enter your postal code" generally works about as well though.

The site's most important feature is Street View, and a postal code doesn't allow Street View to work. Neither does geoip.

I used to display only the 3D globe by default, with a gigantic bright green button to switch to street view. The majority of people never saw the Street View feature even though it was only one button press away. The button even had an animated effect to draw attention. If you also had to type in some text before seeing Street View, hardly anyone would bother.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#327

Post by sneak »

gumby wrote: post #319

In the middle of this document is a reference to Joseph Nacchio who appears to be a rare CEO who was punished for respecting his customers' civil rights. Up until that moment he was lauded as a go-getter CEO. I remember my impression of him at the time was that he was simply a tough CEO who could also be a bit of a jerk to his team. But he refused a government request to break the law and shortly thereafter was arres…

He’s out of jail now. I have always wanted to interview him.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#328

Post by sneak »

ex3ndr wrote: post #259

Comparing speed to ADSL is ridiculous. Slow ground internet is not a technology issue, it is a political issue. Even in russia in most major cities everyone (!) have optical (!) fiber directly (!) in their apartment (!). If you want you can get 10GB in your average home. In USA in SF in Bernal Heights i can get RF link with 30mbits at best for ~5x price.

The nice thing about global systems is that they short-circuit all local issues, both tech and political.

As someone else pointed out, I anticipate Starlink will benefit even non-subscribers by motivating other providers to minimally compete.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#329

Post by esjeon »

tachyonbeam wrote: post #315
esjeon wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You need specialized equipment to triangulate receivers, multiple vehicles It's not "specialized", more like just dedicated, because those devices are pretty simple to create. Also, mathematically, one "running" vehicle is enough, but two is minimum for the sake of precision and efficiency. > AFAIK Starling satellites use phased array antennas, Phased arrays do leak signals all over the place ("side lobe"). If tran…

> Phased arrays do leak signals all over the place ("side lobe") I would expect the intensity of those signals to be constantly varying, given that multiple satellites are moving in the sky on different orbital planes. I'm also assuming that said "side lobes" are not equal in intensity in every direction. That has to be significantly more difficult to triangulate than a cellphone or an AM radio emitter. In other word…

> I would expect the intensity of those signals to be constantly varying

The problem is mostly with the frequency band, because it's regulated (or should I say pre-allocated for certain purposes). It's just too easy to notice if someone is using satellite communication, how many and where.

> Satellites don't have enough fuel to constantly dodge specific countries

I'm not saying they should avoid certain countries. It's just about network policies - routing and filtering - which happen on software level.

> Probably not, but it will be one more means of global communication, with more coverage than anything we've seen before.

True. This is a progress. What I'm saying is that this is just one step, not a leap by itself.

I just can't stand people's indistinction b/w progress and paradigm shift, because it's the major source of hype. You know, it takes so many steps for technology to become magic, so why can't we just sit tight and watch, instead of going full frenzy every time something happens. I mean, that's how I see all those futurology stuffs.

Re: Starlink Is a Big Deal

#330

Post by sheepybloke »

Barrin92 wrote: post #10

> "Hundreds of cities and dozens of countries, fine for living but previously entirely unsuitable for a place of business, will blink from red to green on the map once Starlink goes live." this reads like a marketing piece rather than actual analysis. Throughput of a single satellite is 20Gbps. The finished constellation if I recall correctly is supposed to be about 12k satellites. So about ~250.000Gbps. So assuming…

I agree with the social impact point. The wording reminds me a lot of what Zuckerburg's mission for Facebook was for the longest time: connect people and everything will be great. I think this is amazing and definitely going to change the world, but we in the tech world need to curb our hubris because it's bitten us before, and if unchecked, it will bit us again.
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