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iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

appleinsider.com

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Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#321

Post by rienbdj »

dangus wrote: post #215
otachack wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but Google/Android has added fine grain GPS permissions in Android 10+ so we have the option to say "just track when using app" instead of "no" or "all the time". The problem, now, is rolling it out due to fragmentation.

All Android phones before P are vulnerable to a flaw that allows background camera use: https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/7/17091104/android-p-prevent... That might actually be the majority of active Android devices if you look at the marketshare statistics. I think it's actually somewhat embarrassing that the tech industry hasn't been able to provide a low cost, reasonably secure smartphone platform that can be used f…

There was windows phone, but the market wanted apps!

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#322

Post by pta2002 »

arkh wrote: post #296
2ion wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is almost irrelevant for existing users what has been added in Android version n + 1, because they will never get updated to n + 1. The joys of the Android vendor ecosystem. Even very expensive phones like Sony get about 1 (mid) or 2 (high-end) major upgrade only, and that's still not guaranteed. Project Treble did nothing to fix this.

> The joys of the Android vendor ecosystem. Even when going with official Google phones: my Nexus 5 is way out of date OS-wise.

Your Nexus 5 came out 7 years ago, it's unreasonable to expect that the latest Android would even run properly on it when the rest of the world has moved on.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#323

Post by leadingthenet »

underwater wrote: post #309
Waterluvian wrote: post #77

I'm probably saying the complete obvious, but Apple can completely crush Google if they execute this angle properly. Google has no choice but to support ads. They're an ad company. Apple has to keep hammering how bad the ad and privacy experiences are with Android. Make iOS an absolute delight to use in contrast. I'd pay a premium for that. Android has done a great job making me want an iOS device again, these last t…

Google is an ad and data company, so they can't help but push ads and watch what you do. But on the flip side Apple is addicted to building their ecosystem. They will happily cripple the functionality of their devices to force you to buy their MacBook, AirPods, HomePod, Apple Watch, Apple TV, etc. I personally prefer companies who sell solid hardware and focus on their niche.

> Apple is addicted to building their ecosystem

Which, on the flip side, is fantastic if you buy into their ecosystem.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#324

Post by adrianN »

2ion wrote: post #279
otachack wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but Google/Android has added fine grain GPS permissions in Android 10+ so we have the option to say "just track when using app" instead of "no" or "all the time". The problem, now, is rolling it out due to fragmentation.

It is almost irrelevant for existing users what has been added in Android version n + 1, because they will never get updated to n + 1. The joys of the Android vendor ecosystem. Even very expensive phones like Sony get about 1 (mid) or 2 (high-end) major upgrade only, and that's still not guaranteed. Project Treble did nothing to fix this.

We should just force companies by law to provide software patches for anything that can connect to a network for at least five years, better ten, or be liable for security problems.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#325

Post by thu2111 »

Accacin wrote: post #316
cameldrv wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish iOS and Android would implement coarse grain location. My weather app doesn't need to know where I am exactly, within a couple of miles is usually fine. The "find the nearest store" just needs to know within a few blocks. The problem with GPS level location is that if I'm at home, I'm nearly personally identified.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe iOS already has this.. But it's the developer that needs to say they'll use this type of location data - which of course they won't.

Android has had that distinction since version 1, actually.

https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/android-sdk...

Some apps do use coarse permission (which maps roughly to wifi/cell tower location).

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#326

Post by akudha »

Waterluvian wrote: post #77

I'm probably saying the complete obvious, but Apple can completely crush Google if they execute this angle properly. Google has no choice but to support ads. They're an ad company. Apple has to keep hammering how bad the ad and privacy experiences are with Android. Make iOS an absolute delight to use in contrast. I'd pay a premium for that. Android has done a great job making me want an iOS device again, these last t…

Agree. I don't like both companies and wish there were other options in the mobile space. But Apple definitely seems like a less shitty choice of the two

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#327

Post by adrianN »

cameldrv wrote: post #269
otachack wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but Google/Android has added fine grain GPS permissions in Android 10+ so we have the option to say "just track when using app" instead of "no" or "all the time". The problem, now, is rolling it out due to fragmentation.

I really wish iOS and Android would implement coarse grain location. My weather app doesn't need to know where I am exactly, within a couple of miles is usually fine. The "find the nearest store" just needs to know within a few blocks. The problem with GPS level location is that if I'm at home, I'm nearly personally identified.

If I know the rough location of your work and the rough location of your home I can almost certainly identify you: https://crypto.stanford.edu/~pgolle/papers/commute.pdf

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#328

Post by thu2111 »

dangus wrote: post #215
otachack wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but Google/Android has added fine grain GPS permissions in Android 10+ so we have the option to say "just track when using app" instead of "no" or "all the time". The problem, now, is rolling it out due to fragmentation.

All Android phones before P are vulnerable to a flaw that allows background camera use: https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/7/17091104/android-p-prevent... That might actually be the majority of active Android devices if you look at the marketshare statistics. I think it's actually somewhat embarrassing that the tech industry hasn't been able to provide a low cost, reasonably secure smartphone platform that can be used f…

That's not "vulnerable to a flaw". You make it sound like there's some sort of security bug or buffer overflow in the OS that lets any app turn on the camera at will.

The "flaw" is that apps you explicitly gave permission to use the camera, can use it! All they've done in P is notice that they can tighten the permission even further so the app has to be in the foreground to use that permission.

The lack of this wasn't a vulnerability though. Mobile operating systems have been implementing finer grained permissions and security through their entire lifespans. For sure that trend will continue. If we spin every improvement to privacy controls as "fixing a vulnerability" it's just a form of crying wolf that will lead people to ignore security updates even more than they already do.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#329

Post by prox »

akudha wrote: post #326
Waterluvian wrote: post #77

I'm probably saying the complete obvious, but Apple can completely crush Google if they execute this angle properly. Google has no choice but to support ads. They're an ad company. Apple has to keep hammering how bad the ad and privacy experiences are with Android. Make iOS an absolute delight to use in contrast. I'd pay a premium for that. Android has done a great job making me want an iOS device again, these last t…

Agree. I don't like both companies and wish there were other options in the mobile space. But Apple definitely seems like a less shitty choice of the two

There are other options. My next phone will either be a Librem 5 or a zerophone.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#330

Post by bambataa »

Epskampie wrote: post #286
gempir wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't noticed more notification spam in Google apps, but what I have noticed is the way better notification management in recent years. I can long press on notifications and directly block it forever or finely tune the App sending it what it is allowed to send etc. Last time I used an iPhone I still had to double swipe to even dismiss a notification, which is super annoying because most are probably spam. If Noti…

On ios every app has to ask permission before the first notification, so you will not get the spammy ones in the first place. I agree with your point that android is making management much easier though.

But apps request permission to do functionality-related things and then spam you. Grab, a ride-hailing app I used in SE Asia, was terrible for this.
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