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Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

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Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#321

Post by dragonwriter »

Low friction and no support ejection from app markets seems to be a necessary cost of the low-cost, low-friction entry that they allow, and the fact that action against app developers to recover costs due to abuses isn't easy. If we had more upfront costs (both directly to market operators and in surety bond) it would be practical to have a lot friendlier process in the event of apparent violation. But then, we'd have a lot fewer devs even able to get into app stores, and the vast majority of non-abusive developers would experience this as a pure burden. The few that get caught up incorrectly in policy violation scans would benefit (assuming they weren't kept off the market in the first place), and it would be more abstractly fair, but I'm not sure it would be a win for consumers or developers on the whole

Which isn't to say it shouldn't be done: fairness is important, too. But there is a cost.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#322

Post by echelon »

GhettoMaestro wrote: post #284
echelon wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to live in your locked-down Disney with the death sentence world. That's fine for you to want it, but don't impose it on me. I want freedom and liberty to do what I want with the devices I own. I want to develop without fear that these two megacorps can shut me down on a whim for developing something against their ideology. The web isn't like that. Windows wasn't like that. Today we live in a Fischer-Pri…

Your ideal state of Internet / Tech companies is definitely in the minority contrasted to overall expectations the broader population has put on these devices and services. Yeah, we get it, you're smart. I'm smart. Most people here are smart. But protections still matter. What you're saying is I don't want to wear a seatbelt when driving my car. Sure that is your choice - but I think it is a very foolish one.

How are app stores the only means of providing reasonable security? They already fail at that job. A huge number of apps, including popular ones, request as many permissions as they can.

In what world do I want a transit app listening to my microphone?

There isn't anything that precludes security in an app store-less world. If we sat for an hour, we could whiteboard a number of technical solutions that could be engineered.

- apps still require signing

- implementing a stricter permissions / ACL model

- continuously scan devices for malware or bad heuristical behavior

- publish a list of misbehaving apps that can be subscribed to and automatically scrubbed

- semantic sets of app permissions. Gallery apps don't get microphone, contact, or location data.

We could easily engineer for a distributed world. The problem is that Apple and Google want complete control. Playing gatekeeper gives them authority, and they get to take a large rake of any money being made.

Don't make excuses for their model. They're bad actors that have abused their monopoly powers.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#323

Post by throwaway_law »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #302
echelon wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to live in your locked-down Disney with the death sentence world. That's fine for you to want it, but don't impose it on me. I want freedom and liberty to do what I want with the devices I own. I want to develop without fear that these two megacorps can shut me down on a whim for developing something against their ideology. The web isn't like that. Windows wasn't like that. Today we live in a Fischer-Pri…

> That's fine for you to want it, but don't impose it on me. Who imposes this onto you? I have a great idea for you if you dislike the App Store: Don't buy an Apple Device. Turns out Apple doesn't owe you shit. Oh, also the same "get off my lawn" libertarian viewpoint of yours can be claimed by Apple. They might want the same liberty (to do as they like with their platform).

>if you dislike the App Store: Don't buy an Apple Device. Turns out Apple doesn't owe you shit

I recall Microsoft using that defense once upon a time.

IF you don't like Explorer or Netscape, don't buy a PC. Turns out Microsoft doesn't owe you shit.

However, it turns out Microsoft does owe consumers something, the Settlement is available for anyone who cares to know what that something is.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#324

Post by davinic »

jacobush wrote: post #157
janoc wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. And about as helpful as offering a coat to a dead man. It is not a problem that is retroactively fixable by other means than by what they are doing now. They could take Android closed source and put a restrictive license on it demanding that timely updates as a condition of use. All that would achieve is that the large vendors will either stick with the old, still free to use, Android or start working on their…

Everything you said rings true, except the part about proprietary license. That's orthogonal to enforcing updates. That is a contractual issue, not a licensing issue. Google could for instance not allow the manufacturer to connect to their Google Play store unless the manufacturer played ball. But where does this all put us? We are OK with crap, insecure devices being shoved all over the markets? What can be done.

They already have contracts with licensing for the Play Store and other apps. Those are not included with the base images and require a contract to be in place.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#326

Post by ghaff »

dspillett wrote: post #281
dollar wrote: post #3

The easiest way to identify a monopoly is to look at how badly a company can treat its customers and still get away with it. My company has a half dozen stories like this about Google in the last year alone. Know what Google is doing to its AdSense partners on a massive scale? They wait until your site has just under the earnings when they have to write you a check, then they terminate your AdSense account for “polic…

Is having 3rd party code on your pages really worth "a few pennies a day" to a lot of people? I'd rather keep a clean site.

That's a question more people should probably ask themselves. I screwed around with various ads, affiliate links, and so forth at one point. I fairly quickly came to the conclusion that the small amount I was bringing in wasn't worth having the ads/code/etc. on my site.

I might feel differently if it were a site focused on a particular topic, ads might be relevant to the audience, and the income were material. But, as it was, it just seemed better to keep it non-commercial.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#327

Post by burnte »

dollar wrote: post #3

The easiest way to identify a monopoly is to look at how badly a company can treat its customers and still get away with it. My company has a half dozen stories like this about Google in the last year alone. Know what Google is doing to its AdSense partners on a massive scale? They wait until your site has just under the earnings when they have to write you a check, then they terminate your AdSense account for “polic…

> Know what Google is doing to its AdSense partners on a massive scale? They wait until your site has just under the earnings when they have to write you a check, then they terminate your AdSense account for “policy violations”.

This happened to me about 15 years ago when I started using AdSense. I literally had JUST crossed the payment threshold and got canned. What pisses me off the most is that they cancel the whole account and don't pay any money at all, despite making it clear that they can detect the supposedly "fraudulent" clicks from real ones, but they'll punish you by cancelling ALL your payments, rather than just whatever supposed fraud there was.

You know what my sin was? I looked at my site a few times. Didn't even click, just loaded it a few times to see how it looked with the ads.

And yes, the "we don't have to tell you want you did wrong" bullshit is also infuriating.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#328

Post by floydnoel »

abrookewood wrote: post #44

Hey Google! Want to know why your cloud service is trailing behind AWS & Azure? This is why ... When you erode trust in your consumer and developer services, don't expect us to sign up for your enterprise services.

This is exactly it! Every time I get a sales email from GCP I bring up all the support issues I have with G in general, such as problems getting ReCaptcha to work. The response is always "sorry, we can't help you at all." Well then, stop trying to sell me your shit when you won't support it.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#329

Post by burnte »

laingc wrote: post #171
cbanek wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This also makes me feel even more strongly that the FTC should really clamp down on these very strict app stores. https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/amicus_briefs/app... Both the App Store and Google Play stores I think are basically illegal monopolies. I should be able to install whatever app I want, without having to jailbreak my phone and deal with warranty nonsense from the manufacturer. Just like my comp…

Personally, as an iOS user, I do not want the App Store opened up at all. Currently, I can go to the App Store, install any app, and be about 99.9% confident that the app will do me (or my technologically illiterate mother) absolutely no harm. This is something I value highly, and am happy to pay the “Apple premium” for.

I think the arguments more at:

a: Let me install from elsewhere if I want, like Android does (and I love)

b: have more transparency in the back end processes of the store and better appeals. Right now it's very arbitrary and capricious. Yes they have a published set of rules, but they're enforced and interpreted in a very unpredictable way.

Re: Google just deleted my nearly 10-year-old free and open-source Android app

#330

Post by egypturnash »

non-entity wrote: post #255
anewguy9000 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly. people are noticing it with google but its all tech companies where your only point of contact is an email address. paypal, uber, facebook, steam, etc etc -- they all deny service to innocent people on a regular basis with no recourse for them. it reminds me of pre social justice movement. isnt it the business' right to deny service to anyone they want to? like all black people? actually, no.

Recently, my Amazon payments account was banned from doing anything out of the blue. I called the customer service and they said they would forward my issue ot the correct people and I would receive a response on what was going on. A day later, I receive an automated email stating that they were "unable to confirm my account information" and that "I will not be able to transact in the future". I was given absolutely…

Email Bezos, they have a secret support team of actual humans who can make decisions instead of working from a script, and this is how you access it.
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