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Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#321

Post by mythz »

briandear wrote: post #313
mythz wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is exactly wrong with share buybacks? AOC presents a good argument against Buy Backs from Big Pharma which incentives CEO's who's compensation is tied to stock price, which as a result she attributes as the cause of rising costs of health insurance: https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1154794058272972801 Although Big Pharma doesn't operate in a natural economy where products are priced at optimal demand / supply fo…

Are we taking AOC seriously on anything related to economics? Even Politifact has called her out on her misunderstanding of unemployment. Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jul...

> Are we taking AOC seriously on anything related to economics?

AOC has at least studied economics at Boston University and has made it a goal to go after corruption and corporate greed. Just because the source isn't coming from Wall St or Corporate America doesn't make it invalid.

It's not clear how much of the research behind her reasoning and arguments come from her or her team, either way if you have a counter argument that contradicts her points make them, you've added nothing of value with your prejudices in trying to disparage the source.

Parent was asking what's wrong with Buy Backs, to which she's presented a negative side-effect of them that you wouldn't hear from Wall St who stands to benefit from them.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#322

Post by scarface74 »

Retric wrote: post #319
scarface74 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and every area you posted is about them getting into declining markets - most of which are declining because of the smart phone. Microsoft made $10 billion in revenue last year on the XBox - they don’t mention profit ( https://www.geekwire.com/2018/microsofts-record-setting-10b-... ). Microsoft still probably hasn’t recouped their losses in the Xbox division and the console market isn’t expected to grow. Apple ma…

Smartphones also largely killed off the watch industry but they where happy to jump into that market. It’s just a question of positive ROI not the ultra long term.

Yes and the Apple Watch is a wearable computer that does a lot more than just tell time. What do you propose they bring to the standalone console, TV, or camera market that will make a declining market make money?

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#323

Post by october_sky »

david-cako wrote: post #302
ajross wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stock values aren't only about earnings. Amazon continues to be a growth bet, and their low earnings are because their income has historically been reinvested productively to access new markets. A quick google shows their 2018 revenue was up 31% over 2017, which was up 31% over 2016, which was up 27% over 2015. You don't buy Amazon for a share of the amount they're making today, you buy them for a share of the much b…

It’s a commoditized market and Apple’s success blueprint is out for everyone to see, yet no one else can adapt mid century design principles and “high fashion” style marketing to technology. This sounds like shilling (and I do own Apple stock) but I’m serious. Compare the Apple remote (with the iOS “emulator”), Apple TV, and Airplay to Chromecast’s UX, for instance. Apple does have special sauce. They make tools that…

Apple TV (and accompanying remote) is by far one of the worst UI/UX experiences I've seen.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#324

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

ajross wrote: post #262
DLA wrote: post #233

NY Times made a mess of this story and slanted it toward their agendas. Horrible reporting. Apple beat most estimates. Revenues grew. All time high revenue from services. Forward guidance was raised. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/07/apple-reports-third-q...

That's a bit spun too, though. Revenue is up just .93%. Net income is down 12.7%. And they beat the estimates because the estimates were expecting bad news, as the overall trend has been stagnant for about two years. Those just aren't good numbers for a company that, over the past decade, has been literally the most profitable in history. They aren't "bad" numbers, but for Apple they're sort of a disaster. The iPhone…

Given how slow the rest of the world economy is, and that they still managed to eek out 1% revenue growth on an absolutely gargantuan $50+ billion base for the quarter, despite earning the majority of their revenue abroad on a luxury product, I'd say these numbers are pretty amazing.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#325

Post by ajross »

mort96 wrote: post #294
ajross wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit spun too, though. Revenue is up just .93%. Net income is down 12.7%. And they beat the estimates because the estimates were expecting bad news, as the overall trend has been stagnant for about two years. Those just aren't good numbers for a company that, over the past decade, has been literally the most profitable in history. They aren't "bad" numbers, but for Apple they're sort of a disaster. The iPhone…

When are we going to stop expecting exponential growth though? Or should the exponential growth just continue indefinitely? Is there no value in having a nice S-curve, ending up as one of the most profitable companies in history, and then just staying insanely profitable for a long time in a sustainable way?

We have stopped expecting exponential growth, that's what the linked article is about. "Slowing Growth" is literally in the title!

And that means things, like for example the stock has to decline and/or dividends increase because it becomes more productive to put that money into companies that are growing. Investors care about news like this.

It seems like a lot (a lot) of readers here are looking at the article as if it says "Apple sucks. Their products suck. No one should buy this junk. They're going to fail."

That's not what it says. It does say that Apple, as an investment, is changing from one kind of thing (a growing tech behemoth) to another (a basically static industry giant), and that change is news.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#326

Post by benawad »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #16

That iPhones were less than half their revenue, while still growing overall revenue, is a positive sign. Apple has done a good job of diversifying their revenue base over the last few years. It will be interesting to see how large wearables and services can become as revenue sources, I suspect they are still quite early in their growth.

I recently read the book "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" and it talked about how when a company adds more lines of business that long term it can have negative effects (lack of focus). Do you think Apple has over diversified?

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#327

Post by dntrkv »

paul7986 wrote: post #203

2019 is another year I’m stuck with my iPhone 8 from 2017. I use to upgrade every year then some genius at Apple thought bigger phones are the only way to go from here on out. Maybe that person no longer works there? Also Touch ID over Face ID or offer both or I’m not interested along with millions of others!

The iPhone XS is basically the same size as an iPhone 8 with a screen that is 1" larger.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#328

Post by o10449366 »

DLA wrote: post #233

NY Times made a mess of this story and slanted it toward their agendas. Horrible reporting. Apple beat most estimates. Revenues grew. All time high revenue from services. Forward guidance was raised. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/07/apple-reports-third-q...

Their reporting on technology is often intentionally misleading and sensationalist, but it isn't surprising considering they directly compete with the likes of Facebook for attention and also rely on Google, Apple, and Twitter for visibility.

I stopped reading NYT after their obvious crusade on Facebook followed by their embarrassing "privacy" series. Most of these companies disgust me, but NYT's reporting almost made me feel a semblance of sympathy for them due to how ridiculous it was.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#329

Post by jhall1468 »

capkutay wrote: post #214
MaysonL wrote: post #8

And the stock increased over 4% in after-hours trading, as increases in non-iPhone hardware sales and services overcame the decrease in iPhone sales. Earnings per share slightly beat the consensus forecast. An interesting quote from Cook in the press release: "The balance of calendar 2019 will be an exciting period, with major launches on all of our platforms, new services and several new products"

AAPL is still undervalued compared to stocks like AMZN. Apple's P/E of 17 is amazing compared to Amazons 78. I'm not really sure why their stock isn't traded with the same enthusiasm that other tech companies see.

Comparing a high-cost consumer electronics company with market dominance but little growth projection to an online retailer with enormous growth makes absolutely no sense. Comparing their P/E makes even less sense.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#330

Post by jhall1468 »

outside1234 wrote: post #257
capkutay wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And amazon has 125,000 employees running their supply chain. I wouldn't call that 'easy to scale' either.

And amazon barely makes any profit, so its not clear that their business actually does scale, if they didn’t have AWS.

AWS is their business and it certainly scales. Their goal in retail is market dominance through convenience and that still costs a ton of money. AWS does not cost a ton of money.
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