YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#321

Post by themagician » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

Zancarius wrote: post #296

themagician wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those looking to be radicalized will look at this as an example of the conspiracy. Look at QAnon. Or look at things like Conservapedia: https://www.conservapedia.com/Paul_Manafort Go ahead and read that article on Paul Manafort. That's just one, mundane article—you could pick any. Understand that, true or false, it doesn't matter anymore—this is a narrative and a set of facts that around 100 million people in the Uni…

> But I DO know that removing videos from YouTube won't make it better. It may make it worse. I think you're right, and I have some first-hand knowledge on the matter. I've debated QAnon types and flat earthers alike. In both cases, they often see an absence of information as some overarching conspiracy. I'm not really sure who is worse (the flat earthers are a subset of a broader "government-is-hiding-things" conspi…

The time for moderation is over. Way over. If YouTube and Facebook has moderated in the beginning their would be no problem. That would just be the way it is.

But now? Too late.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#322

Post by 6d6b73 » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

blancNoir wrote: post #48

patagonia wrote: post #33

Will YouTube also remove their algos that send people down rabbit holes of “extreme views” and encapsulate individuals in information bubbles that seem to validate and fail to challenge their views? The platform should shoulder as much or more blame than the content in this case. Free speech man. This is not ok.

From the article: "In addition to tightening its hate speech rules, YouTube announced it would also tweak its recommendation algorithm, the automated software that shows users videos based on their interests and past viewing habits. This algorithm is responsible for more than 70 percent of overall time spent on YouTube, and has been a major engine for the platform’s growth. But it has also drawn accusations of leadin…

The cynic in me thinks this is simply to have an excuse to recommend videos to people to change their views, only when it's in Google's interest.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#323

Post by EvilTerran » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #273

AndrewStephens wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was shocked when news sites started publishing comments as a matter of course. They worked so hard to research and create a 2000 word article that accurately reflects the world (in accordance to their editorial guidelines) using their good name - and then let fReEtHiNkErChAd and 2020BloodInTheStreets chime in at the end. It would be OK if they strictly moderated the comments, but few sites seem to do that.

Here is a crazy wild-assed concept: letters to the editor, published in the next issue.

The Atlantic have taken that principle & modernised it: every article ends not with a comments section, but an invitation to email them your thoughts; then they publish the cream of the crop on https://www.theatlantic.com/letters/.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#324

Post by pessimizer » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

I'm sure that Google has been waiting for a youtube media panic to pull the trigger on this for a while. They'd prefer to be an on-demand cable channel, and would love to remove any material controversial to anyone, but didn't want censorship to be the story (especially with antitrust stuff going around.)

Google isn't in the video business because it wants people to be able to share videos with each other. Google is in the video business to sell ads. Censoring the illiberal is the way to get to get liberals to support censorship. Announcing manual control over the suggestions is a way to justify steering viewers away from any content, starving it of revenue, and getting it off the platform.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#325

Post by deogeo » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 6:11 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #230

nyczomg wrote: post #210

From the article: 'The new policy will ban “videos alleging that a group is superior in order to justify discrimination, segregation or exclusion,” the company said in a blog post.' Is this going to include videos that mention "white privilege" (which one could argue alleges superiority of white people) in which white people are asked to "check their privilege" in some way (which one could argue is an attempt to just…

> "check their privilege" [...] (which one could argue is an attempt to justify exclusion)? If you can make the case, maybe. I mean, it sounds like a kind of insane case to make to me. Who's being excluded, and from what, merely by having their assumptions challenged in a discussion context? The groups actually being targetted are ones that tend to advocate for the status of the US as an inherently white nation. Sort…

It's not surprising there'd be groups advocating for that. They don't want to become a minority in their country, as both history and current events show that's a bad position to be in.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#326

Post by esailija » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 6:12 PM UTC

whenchamenia wrote: post #260

untog wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to not be understanding my point. The videos being removed are not some "radical right" that serves as the opposite of your definition of "radical left". They are "channels that advocate for neo-Nazism, white supremacy and other bigoted ideologies". BLM, Antifa, etc. are not the "left" equivalent of these "right" viewpoints.

As someone who finds them both distasteful and hateful; yes, they are very similar. All sides need to reign in their extremists, or become defined by them.

One is about creating violence and hate against certain races, other is about reducing violence and hate against a race. They couldn't be more dissimilar.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#327

Post by gamblor956 » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 6:12 PM UTC

creaghpatr wrote: post #159

vowelless wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century. A white nationalist uprising in Europe would be deadlier (again) than Islamic extremists taking over most middle eastern nations due to the resources that will be available to them.

>A white nationalist uprising in Europe would be deadlier (again) than Islamic extremists taking over most middle eastern nations due to the resources that will be available to them. Reckless speculation considering the latter did happen. You're fearmongering in order to drive censorship and oppression of viewpoints you disagree with.

How is he fearmongering? A white nationalist uprising is quite literally relatively recent European history, and resulted in the torture and slaughter of tens of millions.

Before Al Queda, the West's biggest fear was domestic white nationalist terrorists like Timothy McVeigh.

EDIT: It's very disturbing that so many people don't understand what the Nazi platform was all about. The supremacy of the "Aryan Race" was literally a platform of the Nazi party from the beginning. The subjugation of Jews was a part of the party platform from the beginning. The use of paramilitary squads to enforce ideological purity was a part of the party from the beginning. And it just got worse from there.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#328

Post by asdf21 » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #290

ravenstine wrote: post #107

I'm starting to think that comment sections on news sites are a really bad idea. At first I thought NPR and the like were cowards for removing theirs. It's bad enough that NYT can be pretty biased on its own, but the comment sections are always full of low-tier thinking that just push whatever narrative is currently in the Overton window. What I find distressing is how people remark that a telecom and advertising gia…

I was a huge proponent of this in the early days of the web and was leading the crusade for reader engagement, championing the idea of anonymous commentary and a pure marketplace of ideas. Well, it turns out I had an over-optimistic view of people.

What no one really wants to admit here on YC is that the userbase here is something like the top .01% of (intelligence / literacy / analytical skills). Hell, even reddit, as low-brow as that has gotten, is still top 1% easily. But there are still plenty of staggeringly oblivious views in both places.

It's hard to admit that dichotomy, because when we realize that the top 1% or .01% can still be so ignorant, we also gradually realize that we are all probably in for a lot of trouble moving forward, particularly if and when resource wars become a bit more widespread than they are now.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#329

Post by Faark » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

fwip wrote: post #272

baud147258 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WW2 wasn't caused by white supremacy, it was caused by nationalism. It was part of the Reich's propaganda to say that they were waging war against the jews (and socialists and communists…), but they were doing this because they though that Germany was superior to its neighbor and was fit to conquer and rule them.

Do you think it's possible that without the propaganda of white supremacy, the German public would have been less willing to go to war?

Also please be aware that you will see terms like "white" supremacy be used in these discussions instead of more appropriate terms like "Aryan" to make the topic easier to approach for an American audience.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#330

Post by bzbarsky » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

dageshi wrote: post #309

ravenstine wrote: post #107

I'm starting to think that comment sections on news sites are a really bad idea. At first I thought NPR and the like were cowards for removing theirs. It's bad enough that NYT can be pretty biased on its own, but the comment sections are always full of low-tier thinking that just push whatever narrative is currently in the Overton window. What I find distressing is how people remark that a telecom and advertising gia…

Is a privately owned museum a "public square"? Or a sports stadium owned by a private company? Or a Cinema? Or a threatre? No, neither is youtube. It's a place the public visit not a piece of public infrastructure. Repeating "public square" over and over again does not make it so.

On the other hand, a privately owned shopping mall is legally a "public square" in a number of states in the US, with the justification that it is explicitly a place for people to gather and interact, just like the main street of a town in the 19th century.

Which of these cases is Youtube more like? It's already hard to tell, and it's continuing to change. I expect the legal status of online forums to evolve over the next several decades, just like the legal status of brick-and-mortar spaces has evolved over time.