Block Fingerprinting with Firefox • Hacker News Board

Re: Block Fingerprinting with Firefox

#321

Post by kakkksaknmdm » Fri, May 31, 2019, 12:09 PM UTC

I worked in the ad industry. Every web-browser including brave, tor,safari is uniquely identifiable even on same hardware.

All the public computer researchers and browser vendors are years behind the techniques to fingerprint devices (probably 5+).

Canvas, WebGl etc are techniques of the past. There are much more advanced ones, than can identify devices with completely uniquely (on both desktop and mobile)

Also we know when users fake their fingerprints, and the algorithm respects the decision even though we know who the user is despite faking with all state of the art methods.

Latest methods dont even use JavaScript. Just CSS is enough to identify every device uniquely but you'd need JS to send the data back.

Every public researcher I've seen are given honeypot techniques that they consider state of the art even thought the industry is way ahead of the researchers.

Re: Block Fingerprinting with Firefox

#322

Post by klez » Fri, May 31, 2019, 12:10 PM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #314

maxheadroom wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention Edge moving to the Chrome base; which further disenfranchises anyone from making sure it works in 'x' browser, anymore. " It works in Chrome and Edge, which is based on Chrome, so what's your problem, again? "

As developers we should take a blood oath that we will always optimize for Firefox.

I see that your heart is in the right place, but I think as web developers we should take a blood oath that we will always optimize for standard compliance, instead. And for a standard that is not a moving target, while we're at it.

Re: Block Fingerprinting with Firefox

#323

Post by klez » Fri, May 31, 2019, 12:13 PM UTC

anonymfus wrote: post #289

maxheadroom wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention Edge moving to the Chrome base; which further disenfranchises anyone from making sure it works in 'x' browser, anymore. " It works in Chrome and Edge, which is based on Chrome, so what's your problem, again? "

Well considering that Google already specifically blocks Chromium based Edge from its current YouTube version may be Recaptcha will not work in it soon too.

Google is not blocking edge, or at least we have no proof of that. In this instance I think it's safe to assume an oversight based on naive user agent whitelisting.

And before I get accused of shilling, I hate chrome and despise Google with a passion.

Re: Block Fingerprinting with Firefox

#324

Post by senorjazz » Fri, May 31, 2019, 12:22 PM UTC

kakkksaknmdm wrote: post #321

I worked in the ad industry. Every web-browser including brave, tor,safari is uniquely identifiable even on same hardware. All the public computer researchers and browser vendors are years behind the techniques to fingerprint devices (probably 5+). Canvas, WebGl etc are techniques of the past. There are much more advanced ones, than can identify devices with completely uniquely (on both desktop and mobile) Also we kn…

If this is the case, then the millions if not billions of adfraud is put through by the ad companies knowingly and defrauding the ad-buyers surely?

Re: Block Fingerprinting with Firefox

#325

Post by flatb » Fri, May 31, 2019, 12:28 PM UTC

kakkksaknmdm wrote: post #321

I worked in the ad industry. Every web-browser including brave, tor,safari is uniquely identifiable even on same hardware. All the public computer researchers and browser vendors are years behind the techniques to fingerprint devices (probably 5+). Canvas, WebGl etc are techniques of the past. There are much more advanced ones, than can identify devices with completely uniquely (on both desktop and mobile) Also we kn…

Not to be picky, because to be honest I completely believe that what you say is plausible, but that's a lot of outrageous claims with very little in the way of examples or evidence.

Re: Block Fingerprinting with Firefox

#326

Post by rypskar » Fri, May 31, 2019, 12:29 PM UTC

kakkksaknmdm wrote: post #321

I worked in the ad industry. Every web-browser including brave, tor,safari is uniquely identifiable even on same hardware. All the public computer researchers and browser vendors are years behind the techniques to fingerprint devices (probably 5+). Canvas, WebGl etc are techniques of the past. There are much more advanced ones, than can identify devices with completely uniquely (on both desktop and mobile) Also we kn…

Thank you for this good argument for why we all should block ads. There is no reason for you to stalk users

Re: Block Fingerprinting with Firefox

#327

Post by skybrian » Fri, May 31, 2019, 12:39 PM UTC

atoav wrote: post #260

skybrian wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, that makes sense. Not ideal, but captchas need to be written somehow.

I had simple questions you can answer with text on my site for years, and I had no spam problem whatsoever. I am not convinced that training google’s image recognition algorithms is the only way to solve the captcha problem

You probably don't have the world's spammers trying to get in like Google. There is money to be made creating Google accounts.

Re: Block Fingerprinting with Firefox

#328

Post by dhimes » Fri, May 31, 2019, 12:39 PM UTC

klez wrote: post #322

dhimes wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As developers we should take a blood oath that we will always optimize for Firefox.

I see that your heart is in the right place, but I think as web developers we should take a blood oath that we will always optimize for standard compliance, instead. And for a standard that is not a moving target, while we're at it.

Yes- this is better. I think those two things will be well-aligned though.

Re: Block Fingerprinting with Firefox

#329

Post by skybrian » Fri, May 31, 2019, 12:45 PM UTC

smittywerben wrote: post #284

skybrian wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, that makes sense. Not ideal, but captchas need to be written somehow.

The fact that CAPTCHA sweatshops exist is a testament to it's failure as a protocol, let alone the privacy implications (just run X.exe to continue).

Seems like spammers wouldn't hire humans if they could fully automate it? That's about the best you could do as a defense.

Re: Block Fingerprinting with Firefox

#330

Post by kakkksaknmdm » Fri, May 31, 2019, 12:45 PM UTC

senorjazz wrote: post #324

kakkksaknmdm wrote: post #321

I worked in the ad industry. Every web-browser including brave, tor,safari is uniquely identifiable even on same hardware. All the public computer researchers and browser vendors are years behind the techniques to fingerprint devices (probably 5+). Canvas, WebGl etc are techniques of the past. There are much more advanced ones, than can identify devices with completely uniquely (on both desktop and mobile) Also we kn…

If this is the case, then the millions if not billions of adfraud is put through by the ad companies knowingly and defrauding the ad-buyers surely?

Large companies have fixed ad spend budgets. If they dont spend they lose. Doesn't matter if its lost to fraud.

Google, Facebook advertiser have more specific budgets, especially Facebook which has a large number of small advertisers.

Large adnetworks however get large advertisers with advertising budgets in tens of millions on average.

There is a larger pressure on Google and Facebook to be competitive then say smaller ad networks.

Also the techniques that I mention of are not in use in wild after the POC on millions of devices few months ago. They're a backup plan. Also not every adtech company has them. Maybe 2 or 3 at the most are at the cutting edge of tracking.

Google knows this very well. You really think Google couldn't counter fraud? Its a fake and manufactured outrage. No one wants to give away their "secret sauce" just yet.

Also right now many adtech companies are going bankrupt. Many larger one are waiting for smaller ones to be gone after which the landscape changes.