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Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

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Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#321

Post by cmurf »

The current U.S. administration is hostile to the environment in general. All Republican administrations are, but this one is notably much worse. It's rolled back nearly all the regulations that were intended to prevent another Deepwater Horizon incident.

All those pesky regulations that cost corporations money! As if regulations do zero good. Well here's an example of where they do good and yes that absolutely costs corporations profits. That's the point. Quite a lot of those profits come from exploitation, and externalities. Inhibit them, and profits go down, not a surprise.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#322

Post by wazoox »

Loughla wrote: post #290
wazoox wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaël Giraud (Chief economist of the French Agency for Development) said something along these lines: In economy, usually when someone builds a model that predicts the future for 18 months they later get the Nobel. The World III model from the Meadows Report almost exactly described the world for more than 45 years. If we may think that it's still modelling our world exactly enough, complete civilisational collapse wi…

Do you have links to any decent analysis of that model? Because the only things I've been able to digest are the criticisms (the majority of what I've found is that the model does not accurately reflect the world we live in). I'm not trying to confirmation bias myself here, but I would like to see what the proponents have to say.

Here is a pretty good one IMO (loooong read):

https://jancovici.com/en/readings/societies/the-limits-to-gr...

Another article that explains well what the model does, that economists do as if matter and laws of physics didn't exist (unless they're of the rare breed of Georgescu-Roegen's disciples):

https://jancovici.com/en/energy-transition/societal-choices/...

Another article from another source:

https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/09/discovering-limits-to-gro...

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#323

Post by inflatableDodo »

matz1 wrote: post #295
inflatableDodo wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Keeping in mind that keeping bee alive will also incur cost and sacrifice. Do you live anywhere near an active volcano? I have been reading up on Maya culture and thanks to your comment I may have a plan to save the bees. It is unlikely to work I'd be the first to admit, however I think it could be worth a try.

If you inferring that you are going to throw me into active volcano, then I see few issue with that solution : - I don't live near active volcano - I am going to fight back - Even, when I fail to fight back, you might be living the rest of your live in prison. Which I think it going to be suck.

Sorry, I probably went a bit far there.

I don't want to throw anyone into an active volcano, not even people who can't see the value of another creature beyond how it benefits themselves, though I must admit, that does increase the temptation.

It is good to know where the line is though. Evidently you can suggest enslaving someone for the amusement of bees and they don't even notice, but one little mention of sacrificing them for a volcano god and they take it seriously all of a sudden.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#324

Post by holoduke »

Unpopular to say, but people as a group will not change. it won't just happen. We will destroy part of earth and as a consequence we will engineer a fix for it. It is maybe an unfortunate thing. But that's how we people work. We mess up first and clean after. It's quite unrealistic to expect the world to look the same in 100 years from now. We will slowly take control over every single square feet on this planet. That goes not without troubles.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#325

Post by rihegher »

dkarbayev wrote: post #279

One thing that I fail to wrap my mind around: aren’t all those corporations executives, politicians, and poachers living on the same planet Earth as all of us? Don’t they ever think that they’re actually destroying our planet and there’s no other place to live? I can imagine that they don’t believe pro-climate change people, but they could simply hire an independent group of researchers, don’t they? And I mean actual…

reading your comment made me think about this video where a green activist ask during a session with lawmakers in Luxembourg « who among you has read the ipcc report ? »

https://youtu.be/KSxIbJlkKD0

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#326

Post by knz »

dkarbayev wrote: post #279

One thing that I fail to wrap my mind around: aren’t all those corporations executives, politicians, and poachers living on the same planet Earth as all of us? Don’t they ever think that they’re actually destroying our planet and there’s no other place to live? I can imagine that they don’t believe pro-climate change people, but they could simply hire an independent group of researchers, don’t they? And I mean actual…

Don't underestimate the ability of people to ignore evidence if it challenges their personal beliefs. I know way too many retired engineers who refuse to believe the science because a certain TV network has convinced them that it's a political hoax.

That attitude even trickles down to more local issues -https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/02/20/3m-vs-minnesota-wat... here in MN for example. Many of the people I refer to above are 3M'ers and believe that the State is extorting 3M. A couple of them are very vocally opposed to anyone installing water filters because of this.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#327

Post by jniedrauer »

uhtred wrote: post #306
jniedrauer wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going completely vegan is pretty difficult. You can get 95% of the way there with a pesco-vegetarian diet for half of the effort and cost.

Why is it difficult? If someone is still eating eggs, dairy and fish they are not 95% of the way to being vegan. And cost? What makes you think being vegan is more expensive than eating animal products?

> If someone is still eating eggs, dairy and fish they are not 95% of the way to being vegan.

95% is obviously not a real number, but it's not far off when you actually look at the environmental impact of different foods[0]

> And cost? What makes you think being vegan is more expensive than eating animal products?

I should specify that being vegan and remaining healthy is more expensive than eating animal products. You could probably survive on lentils and be ok... for a while. But your diet will not be balanced. To eat a balanced vegan diet, you will need to buy a lot of fresh foods in comparatively higher quantities, and the cost adds up. Semi-vegetarians and pesco-vegetarians seem to have the most balanced diets[1]

[0]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/30/dining/climat...

[1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#328

Post by c1sc0 »

snarfy wrote: post #31
perfunctory wrote: post #11

We keep hearing that individual actions don't matter and that we need a system change instead. I used to hold the same opinion for the very long time. However, since recently I started to turn around. For the last 30 years governments and politicians have proven incapable to do anything about global heating. What makes us think it will be any different in the coming years. Scientists keep producing report after repor…

It's controversial, but don't have more than two kids. Consider adoption.

It’s controversial, but consider genocide. I fear the day will come someone will actually put this option on the table. Our species seems to be particularly prone to bouts of this tendency.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#329

Post by DamnYuppie »

TheBeardKing wrote: post #293
dkarbayev wrote: post #279

One thing that I fail to wrap my mind around: aren’t all those corporations executives, politicians, and poachers living on the same planet Earth as all of us? Don’t they ever think that they’re actually destroying our planet and there’s no other place to live? I can imagine that they don’t believe pro-climate change people, but they could simply hire an independent group of researchers, don’t they? And I mean actual…

[flagged]

It would be more accurate if you replaced "greedy capitalists" with "humanity". I have been all over the world and materialism that is so denounced as a US/capitalist vice is actually prevalent EVERYWHERE. The desire to improve ones life and acquire material is universal to all people regardless of the ruling structure of their country. It is my opinion that what we need to focus on is a reduction of consumerism that prioritizes short term gratification; the "greedy capitalist" can't make money if no one is buying.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#330

Post by pastor_elm »

dkarbayev wrote: post #279

One thing that I fail to wrap my mind around: aren’t all those corporations executives, politicians, and poachers living on the same planet Earth as all of us? Don’t they ever think that they’re actually destroying our planet and there’s no other place to live? I can imagine that they don’t believe pro-climate change people, but they could simply hire an independent group of researchers, don’t they? And I mean actual…

What are they supposed to do? Run their company into the ground to be a sacrificial lamb in our capitalist society? Humanity is still a competition. Worrying about nature will get you bulldozed.
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