Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#321

Post by amf12 » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 11:57 AM UTC

RestlessMind wrote: post #297

cribbles wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason that Europe has very few innovative new companies created in the last 25 years is that everyone is at the coffee shop writing poetry. This does not dispute the central point of the quoted piece, which is that the quality of life of most Americans is very poor contrast to that of the average person in some subset of European countries. I would wager that most coffee shop employees are more concerned with…

It is pointless to compare richest subset of Europe to the entire US. If you want to do a fair comparison, compare entire Europe to the entire US. Then we see that Europe is not that much better and so called "awesome European welfare" is not reflecting into key metrics. Just to pick two examples, if Europe provides vastly better healthcare and education for free/cheap to its citizens, why is life expectancy or unemp…

> It is pointless to compare richest subset of Europe to the entire US. If you want to do a fair comparison, compare entire Europe to the entire US.

I don't think that's really a fair comparison. Every city from NYC to a small town in Midwest get the same benefits of being one of the richest countries in the world. American federal policies affect everyone in America, rich or poor, in big cities or small towns. Comparing with every European country is disingenuous because that group also consists of Ukraine, Serbia etc. I would way a fair comparison will be with European countries with similar economic indicators as the USA. If you do that, you will notice that metrics are indeed better in those countries.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#322

Post by amf12 » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:02 PM UTC

cribbles wrote: post #63

seibelj wrote: post #20

> In London, Paris, Berlin, I hop on the train, head to the cafe — it’s the afternoon, and nobody’s gotten to work until 9am, and even then, maybe not until 10 — order a carefully made coffee and a newly baked croissant, do some writing, pick up some fresh groceries, maybe a meal or two, head home — now it’s 6 or 7, and everyone else has already gone home around 5 — and watch something interesting, maybe a documentar…

> One reason that Europe has very few innovative new companies created in the last 25 years is that everyone is at the coffee shop writing poetry. This does not dispute the central point of the quoted piece, which is that the quality of life of most Americans is very poor contrast to that of the average person in some subset of European countries. I would wager that most coffee shop employees are more concerned with…

> fragmented languages and cultures

This is what people forget when they compare USA and Europe, because it's not really easy for Americans to grasp this until they come live in Europe. I feel this is an understatement, and the different cultures and languages often leads to market fragmentation.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#323

Post by RickJWagner » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:02 PM UTC

Why, just look at Mick Jagger!

This week he could have used the fine health care provided by the UK's government system. Instead, he opted to pay for service in an American hospital.

What's wrong with Mick? Doesn't he recognize superior quality in healthcare when he sees it?

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#324

Post by amf12 » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 12:42 PM UTC

tinco wrote: post #298

Agustus wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can a dollar taken from me by the government and given to a poor person generate a positive cash flow overall? Has no one taken economics 101 when they get to government that they cannot understand the broken windows policy that Baathist put forward? Step 1. I earn money. Step 2. The government makes fallacious claim using whatever economist dujour is will to prostate themselves to the political party in need of…

You're not going to save it to start a business. You're just going to spend it on rent, products from China and a car loan. Don't pretend your socioeconomic class is better than that.

Or that person might just "save" it for generations, keeping the money from circulating in the local economy.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#325

Post by amf12 » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

sweeeety wrote: post #240

close04 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am a minority but never found myself misplaced in the USA > in Europe I've been victim of physical abuse just because I am not white and the immigration path is also completely broken I'm not contesting you actually had these experiences but yours must be an exceptional story. It contradicts the reality of a lot of people. But you make one big confusion that makes me question your experience with the systems. The…

Definitely, it is my subjective experience but what I can say is that lot of high skilled immigrants here in Denmark don't feel welcome [0]. Whereas, in the USA, we were really proud to be there and contribute to the society and eventually become permanent resident / citizen. Legislation in the USA varies a lot, unless we talk about immigration. Which in my case here in EU, as spouse of EU citizen, is also being scru…

> what I can say is that lot of high skilled immigrants here in Denmark don't feel welcome [0]. Whereas, in the USA

Unfortunately, immigration in the US is not a meritocracy. It chooses for diversity rather than skill. Having been through the immigration system (as an Indian citizen), I will say it is broken. I have seen Uber drivers from Africa getting a green card easier than I can even though I spent 5-6 years there, studied at a local university, had a good job.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#326

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #316

imustbeevil wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person I responded to asked why someone would choose Poetry over Business. Can you really, honestly, read what I wrote and say that I didn't try to come up with reasons why someone would choose Poetry over Business?

When I read what you wrote, in conjunction with this defensive post asking me to speculate as to what you were trying to do, I think of the OP's question as a question on an exam and your reply as the work of a student familiar with the concept of "business" and utterly unaware of the concept of "poetry."

[deleted]

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#327

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 2:52 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #316

imustbeevil wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person I responded to asked why someone would choose Poetry over Business. Can you really, honestly, read what I wrote and say that I didn't try to come up with reasons why someone would choose Poetry over Business?

When I read what you wrote, in conjunction with this defensive post asking me to speculate as to what you were trying to do, I think of the OP's question as a question on an exam and your reply as the work of a student familiar with the concept of "business" and utterly unaware of the concept of "poetry."

[deleted]

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#328

Post by spiralx » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 8:19 AM UTC

eecc wrote: post #320

Bodell wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These "pull yourself up by your bootstraps” comments, always seem to reek of the Munchhausen Trilemma[0]. Take that to mean whatever you will, however I'd say from my own personal experience most of the bootstrap pulling seems only to further selfish means, or worse is just some sort of wheel spinning that no one sees gains from. Due to the overwhelming amount of memoirs and op-ed's and other things of the like that…

> Not trying to be rude here but "the morally right thing...(is to) make a better future for YOU" is really laughable honestly. I am not broadly traveled but this sort of sentiment seems uniquely American. I think it has something to do with Calvinism and how it basically provides moral coverage for the status-quo: your wealth is a reflection of your morality so that have whatever you have, you deserved it.

Creeping Calvinism is indeed a thing that exists in America, hence the existence of things like the prosperity gospel.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#329

Post by spiralx » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 8:37 AM UTC

huffmsa wrote: post #194

rat9988 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? You can be an employee and have a side project independent of your boss.

I'm more talking about the difficulty associated with going from side project to fledgling company. In the US you just slap up a Delaware Corp, use basically standard documents for it's structure and ownership and you're off to the races. Is it that easy in Europe?

It is in the UK - go to Companies House, either buy a defunct company name or register a new one, enter your details and some info about what the company will do, pay a small fee {about £25 if you're using an existing name, a bit more otherwise), done. You'll get the basic Articles of Association, share certificates etc in the post, or just download them IIRC.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#330

Post by deanCommie » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

Improvotter wrote: post #80

TuringNYC wrote: post #15

A lot depends on your particulars. I'm a minority and the US is great because I can earn opportunities my relatives in some other countries would not be allowed. In some other countries, your ethnicity/background/religion would get in the way far more than in the US. This is not to say we don't have room for improvement, we do. Just that we're more meritocratic than certain other first world countries. I know this ju…

> In some other countries, your ethnicity/background/religion would get in the way far more than in the US. I completely disagree. I'm from Europe and applied to a few American-based companies and they all had these ridiculous forms related to anti-discrimination and the like. Is it that big of a problem in the US? That's whay I'm asking myself when I have to fill in those forms. Why do you have to know my ethnicity?…

> Why do you have to know my ethnicity? Why do people in the US _constantly_, and I mean CONSTANTLY, talk about their origins? Literally no one cares in Europe, but it's always said in the US. "Native-american btw", "african-american btw", etc

As a Canadian who's lived in Europe for the last 4 years, this is farcically false.

When my family emigrated to Canada, we were Canadian from day 1. And as you also noted in your dashed qualifiers, all those people are still considered AMERICAN. That is the North American way.

On the other hand, in Europe, i meet people who have been in their current country for 3 generations but still consider themselves as from the country of their ancestors.