Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#321

Post by jrockway » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 2:20 AM UTC

rndgermandude wrote: post #288

tikwidd wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WTC footage is documentation of a terrorist attack by innocent bystanders. The Christchurch Mosque shooting footage was created by the terrorist with the aim of becoming viral. It is a component of the terrorist attack itself.

The 9/11 attackers wanted attention, too, and they got it. Don't tell me that 9/11 wasn't carried out with the express intent to "go viral".

Indeed. If you want to kill the most Americans, just sell them high fructose cheeseburgers for 99 cents. You probably won't even go to prison!

All the talk about social media is just a distraction for the real issues that politicians don't want to face: gun laws. We probably shouldn't be selling crazy people weapons of mass destruction. But sure, blame Facebook for letting people post videos...

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#322

Post by mr_toad » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #54

I've done some work in the AI content moderation space and I have come to suspect that while computer vision is advanced enough to probably detect all of this, the neural nets are so big and deep that it costs over 10x what anyone is willing to pay to run, on such a large scale. It's like looking for needles in a haystack, and it is expensive. There is a cost-quality tradeoff with these neural nets as well, but if yo…

I wouldn’t have thought that scoring video with a pre-trained model would be much more computationally expensive than other routine operations like transcoding and compression.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#323

Post by etaioinshrdlu » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 2:43 AM UTC

mr_toad wrote: post #322

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #54

I've done some work in the AI content moderation space and I have come to suspect that while computer vision is advanced enough to probably detect all of this, the neural nets are so big and deep that it costs over 10x what anyone is willing to pay to run, on such a large scale. It's like looking for needles in a haystack, and it is expensive. There is a cost-quality tradeoff with these neural nets as well, but if yo…

I wouldn’t have thought that scoring video with a pre-trained model would be much more computationally expensive than other routine operations like transcoding and compression.

But it is indeed quite a bit more computationally intendive, especially for the highest quality models.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#324

Post by buttcoinslol » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 3:25 AM UTC

x38iq84n wrote: post #164

fzeroracer wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is extremely telling to me that of all the comments here, most of them I've seen express concern not with the fact that 50 people were murdered by white supremacists (a number that seems to be rising year over year) but rather attempting to divert the topic into one about censorship and free speech. I have seen zero proposed solutions or ways of combating the rise of white supremacists because so far, the market p…

> I have seen zero proposed solutions or ways of combating the rise of white supremacists No, you have only missed them. The solution is exactly free speech and more of it. These days people are often suppressed when they voice a concern that touches certain topics, i.e. immigration, religion and particularly Islam, anti-semitism, rapid changes of demographics and many more. Media oppression and flat out censorship d…

Ask Neville Chamberlin how appeasement turned out.

You will never have a debate in good faith with a white supremacist, as it's an inherently irrational position. Don't waste your breath on them.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#325

Post by NavyNuke » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 3:42 AM UTC

x38iq84n wrote: post #164

fzeroracer wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is extremely telling to me that of all the comments here, most of them I've seen express concern not with the fact that 50 people were murdered by white supremacists (a number that seems to be rising year over year) but rather attempting to divert the topic into one about censorship and free speech. I have seen zero proposed solutions or ways of combating the rise of white supremacists because so far, the market p…

> I have seen zero proposed solutions or ways of combating the rise of white supremacists No, you have only missed them. The solution is exactly free speech and more of it. These days people are often suppressed when they voice a concern that touches certain topics, i.e. immigration, religion and particularly Islam, anti-semitism, rapid changes of demographics and many more. Media oppression and flat out censorship d…

> white supremacists

People conflate white supremacists with white in-group preference...in-group preference is not bad, believing you're group is better than others may be bad or it may not be, it really depends...the point is a of white people who simply want to live around other white people who share their culture are inaccurately disparaged...

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#326

Post by NavyNuke » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 3:46 AM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #120

x38iq84n wrote: post #2

The shooting in Christchurch is a tragedy that should not have happened. That said, this massive wave of censorship across MSM, NZ ISPs, regardless of the motivation, is very disturbing. It will be inevitably used to suppress citizens' freedoms, it will cause more tension in society that will escalate into more tragical incidents. Also, the video may serve someone to study modus operandi of such an attacker to increa…

It is extremely telling to me that of all the comments here, most of them I've seen express concern not with the fact that 50 people were murdered by white supremacists (a number that seems to be rising year over year) but rather attempting to divert the topic into one about censorship and free speech. I have seen zero proposed solutions or ways of combating the rise of white supremacists because so far, the market p…

> I have seen zero proposed solutions or ways of combating the rise of white supremacists because so far...

Curb immigration...require incoming immigrants adopt the culture of country they are immigrating to...if they complain about "lack of diversity/opportunity/representation of their kind of people in a country they just moved to, send them back to wherever they came from...

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#327

Post by fucking_tragedy » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:00 AM UTC

tenpies wrote: post #131

warning26 wrote: post #9

I know people on here will disagree with this, but I think many of these events indicate that online censorship is needed. I believe it's becoming increasingly clear that merely allowing far-right dialogue online is essentially responsible for ease of radicalization, and that proactive censorship would be the best approach to forestall this.

> merely allowing far-right dialogue online is essentially responsible for ease of radicalization The shooter was self described as an eco-fascist and claimed his motivation were two events covered widely by the mainstream media. He was very clearly "of the internet", but are you convinced that deleting "far-right dialogue" would have stopped him? What about the current state of journalism and politics, which was als…

> The shooter was self described as an eco-fascist

Did you forget the dozen or so pages ranting about "white genocide" and "the great replacement"? What about the 49 Muslim people he murdered?

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#328

Post by fucking_tragedy » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:03 AM UTC

sadris wrote: post #244

redisman wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish we would look more at what he did. Killed 50 muslims. Not what his rambling troll "manifesto" said.

If you want it to not happen again, then you should look at the why, not the what.

He said why, in fact, he said it three times in the very first three sentences of his manifesto: "It’s the birthrates." x 3.

Where do we hear conspiracy theories about "the great replacement"[1] coming from? CNN or people like Lauren Southern[2][3]?

Or, the fact that he literally states what he wants (it's the 14 words):

> What do you want?

> We must ensure the existence of our people, and a future for white children.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Replacement_conspira...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Southern

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTDmsmN43NA

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#329

Post by tomhoward » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

jimjimjim wrote: post #148

judge2020 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend re-reading the comments here. Nobody is saying that what happened is acceptable, every comment here has its own reasoning for why they viewed it or why they don't think it should be censored.

Wait, have you read the responses HERE? most of them are 'how dare they try and censor us'.

Please try and remember that the entire objective of this attack is to set everyone at war with each other. Let's not fall into that trap here.

The matter of whether or not censorship increases or reduces the propensity for attacks like this to happen is a complex and vexed one.

If you see anyone discussing the topic in bad faith, you should flag the comment and report them to the mods, and they will take the appropriate action.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#330

Post by burfog » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 4:32 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #316

burfog wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is only about possession of what is sometimes evidence of abuse, and only about people who were caught with it. The interesting numbers are how many cases of abuse are hidden from law enforcement because: 1. people won't recognize abusers they know because they won't dare look 2. people would rather destroy a computer than deal with unfriendly police procedures Oh, BTW, one other problem I didn't mention. The cu…

You seem to be more interested in your hypotheticals than engaging with empirical data or learning about the rather extensive infrastructure that already exists to address the problem.

I think you missed the point that I disagree about what is and isn't a problem. I think your "increase proliferations" wording refers to people having harmless data, not causing actual abuse. It should also be clear that not all abuse is caught, and that discouraging people from reporting things is unhelpful to actual victims.