U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#321

Post by GreaterFool » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 6:40 AM UTC

xtreme wrote: post #243

GreaterFool wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is also what a lot of other countries do As an expat for the bigger part of my life I can't think of a country that would prioritize their own institutions when applying for a visa. Generally there's simply a category for advanced degree holders.

Canada's Express Entry system for skilled immigrants gives you more points if you attended college in Canada. Giving priority to people who have already integrated into the society makes perfect sense to me.

At the same time that kinda cripples the ability to hire highly-skilled foreigners, isn't it? It's artificially limiting the pool of viable candidates.

Just imagine a PhD (or even a Master's degree holder) from Europe, a leader in their field. With this system they are at a huge disadvantage and so are companies that would like to hire them.

As someone mentioned this system will just lead to straight to masters degrees. Those "body shop" outsourcing companies just need their candidates to attend any (does online count?) US-based masters degree and then business as usual.

Having a Masters from "some" university doesn't make anyone highly skilled.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#322

Post by adventured » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 6:43 AM UTC

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #227

tossaccount123 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To prime your intuition a bit, consider how woman and minorities more than doubled the work force from the 1960s to 1990s with no loss in jobs or lowering of wages. You do realize there hasn't been a raise in real wages since the 70s when you account for inflation right? Coincidentally during that same time period the income gap exploded because the wealthy had plentiful cheap labor and were able to pocket the produ…

No, wealth inequality increased because we stopped taxing rich people.

Wealth inequality has increased mostly due to the massive expansion of the global economy, which was a large benefit to capital owners and was a detriment to US labor (whose wages were artifically very high in the post WW2 decades). Global labor competed, capital benefited. Federal Reserve policies since ~1970 have also overwhelmingly favored capital, asset holders, and not workers.

The US tax code has gotten more progressive over time, not less. The very high tax rates from the past were quite narrow in scope, they covered few taxpayers.

The top 25% are paying 85-88% of all income taxes in a given year. The top 10% are paying 70% of all income taxes.

The top 1% yield 20% of all income and pay 39% of all income taxes.

How do you qualify that very progressive tax code as "stopped taxing rich people"?

Simultaneously the US welfare state has massively expanded since 1970. Poverty and homelessness have declined by a lot, while healthcare coverage expanded dramatically. The US spends the equivalent of 20% of its GDP on social welfare programs. That's higher than Canada and Australia, just slightly behind the UK at 22%. All of that is paid for by the top 25% of income earners.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#323

Post by fredkorematsu » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 6:45 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #53

KorematsuFred wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Total number of visas are not increased but people with US Masters degree will have a higher chance of winning the lottery. I am not a lawyer but based on my reading of the law USCIS is likely going to lose in court over this. Here is the relevant text of the law[1]: --- (5) The numerical limitations contained in paragraph (1)(A) shall not apply to any nonimmigrant alien … who … (C) has earned a master’s or high…

> Implication that students with US masters degree are high skilled is pretty lame because majority of these students are from fly by night universities that do not even need GRE for admission Are you arguing that people with less education are on average more valuable? If you don't believe that it matters, then why do you care? It would be a purely neutral move. I don't see anything wrong with that. If you think tha…

Yes. People with less education but few years of experience could be far more valuable than a masters degree holder from silicon valley university which is now shut down. Having a us masters degree is not correlated to higher skill in any way if we are not going to factor in university rankings.

It is very easy to validate claim. How many of the employers in bay area actually ask for masters or higher education for swe jobs ?

If it is a neutral move why waste taxpayer money and potential lawsuites for no benefit ?

My primary argument however is that the move is illegal and completely against the congressional intent.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#324

Post by fredkorematsu » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 6:46 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #249

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is fundamentally wrong, if anything, with people with less education being more valuable? Would you rather have three engineers with an undergrad degree or one with a master's? Where do you draw the line? In my experience advanced degrees do not equate expertise -- if anything, professionally, it's the opposite.

> Would you rather have three engineers with an undergrad degree or one with a master's? Where do you draw the line? We are comparing 1 to 1, not 3 to 1. In the context of this conversation, we are taking about whether it is a bad thing for someone with more education to receive priority access to the H1B visa. And my opinion is that this is at worst a neutral thing. The person I was responding to thinks that giving…

I think a high school drop out with 5 years of work experience coding can beat a masters from silicon valley university. In tech jobs degrees are in no way indicator of skill.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#325

Post by fredkorematsu » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 6:49 AM UTC

abhayb wrote: post #112

raz32dust wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Prioritizing people with U.S. degrees is a pretty reasonable move. And given the existing structure, prioritizing U.S. Masters degrees is also reasonable." - Why do you think so?

Roughly three parts to this. First off, these folks are already "here" . Busy learning to America. Paying tuition to their schools and taxes from their internships/OPTs. Contributing and being contributed to so that there's already a relationship between them, the country, and the country's citizens. This is also what a lot of other countries do so it's consistent with "the way things are done". Finally, it seems pol…

F1 is a non immigrant visa. To get f1 visa student needs to convince visa officer that he will promptly return back to home country after completion of education and will not try to seek any immigrant intent visa.

In that sense every f1 student filing for h1b transfer of status in my opinion acting in bad faith. The case about already here makes no sense as many other visa categories loke r2 or h4 are not allowed to work despite having spent years in usa.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#326

Post by Buge » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 6:49 AM UTC

gesman wrote: post #277

Buge wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we want stuff to be made in America instead of China, we should increase the number of skilled immigrants allowed in.

Import tax on crap would solve it.

By "stuff" I was actually referring to digital products, digital technology, websites, technology companies, etc. An import tax on those would be harder than for physical products.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#327

Post by shard972 » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 6:50 AM UTC

jdlyga wrote: post #66

My now wife went through so much trouble with her H1-B, even though she graduated with a Master's from a United States university and was working in the United States. Yet she got stuck in the lottery system. Don't we want high skilled workers contributing to the economy? Even when we got married, we had to wait over a year for her green card for her and went through an interview. The immigration system is tough and…

Doesan't the country she came from also want her contributing to their economy?

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#328

Post by picacho » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 6:50 AM UTC

tr33house wrote: post #172

Unfortunately, the more school == more skilled proxy doesn't always works and often fails in tech where informal experience matters

more school != more skilled proxy should have it's range. A rank 100+ cs grad school is quite obvious showing a person's learning skill if anyone knows how applying for a cs master in the USA works. One could argue a UCSC graduate doesn't have a good skill set but hardly to say a SIT graduate has a better learning skill. And a SIT graduate is also a 'master' of science in cs, which is able to participate the 'advance' degree h1b lottery slot. How absurd..

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#329

Post by e3b0c » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 6:55 AM UTC

wolco wrote: post #313

e3b0c wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would probably be true if all other conditions held constant. However, Silicon Valley can pay handsome money because many companies located there run well and outperform their competitors for a fertile global market. And those companies can beat their competitors because (at least part of the reasons) they have the best talents available. If the skilled engineers from China, European, India all went back to thei…

If labor/labour supply doubled wages would drop for most of the market.

That assumes the demand and the supply are independent variables.

More people would mean smaller pieces if the size of the pie held constant. But what if there are also fewer people making the pie?

In reality, it's even more complicated in that the contribution of the pie making is not proportional to the headcounts either.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#330

Post by scarejunba » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 6:55 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #316

what_ever wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't "terminate" in GC but rest of your comment is correct.

They terminate in a GC or you go home. Only one renewal, not like the work visa I had in China that could be renewed indefinitely with no path to permanent residency.

This is false. Once you're past a certain point in the GC process, you will renew your status each year.